Comments on: Ashamed of the Gospel http://www.peacebang.com/2005/08/25/ashamed-of-the-gospel/ The manic mind of the minister -- Auntie Mame Meets Cotton Mather Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:09:43 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: PeaceBang http://www.peacebang.com/2005/08/25/ashamed-of-the-gospel/#comment-802 PeaceBang Fri, 26 Aug 2005 14:22:15 +0000 http://www.peacebang.com/2005/08/25/ashamed-of-the-gospel/#comment-802 Contribuutor, I agree with everything you've said. I guess what I didn't make clear enough was the disconnect between the smarmy DISRESPECT of the worship service (it was like worship led by a casino greeter) vs. what they claimed to believe they were doing there.<br/>Believe me when I tell you it was super icky. I truly think the woman who grabbed me to insist how "great" it had been was trying to convince herself, too. The soul knows when it's been duped.<br/><br/>The whole thing reminded me of a high school pep rally. The so-called "drugs" you've named are healthy drugs; they strengthen in some way. This one surely didn't. It enfeebled. Thanks for the movie recommendation. Contribuutor, I agree with everything you’ve said. I guess what I didn’t make clear enough was the disconnect between the smarmy DISRESPECT of the worship service (it was like worship led by a casino greeter) vs. what they claimed to believe they were doing there.
Believe me when I tell you it was super icky. I truly think the woman who grabbed me to insist how “great” it had been was trying to convince herself, too. The soul knows when it’s been duped.

The whole thing reminded me of a high school pep rally. The so-called “drugs” you’ve named are healthy drugs; they strengthen in some way. This one surely didn’t. It enfeebled. Thanks for the movie recommendation.

]]> By: UUpdater http://www.peacebang.com/2005/08/25/ashamed-of-the-gospel/#comment-801 UUpdater Fri, 26 Aug 2005 12:43:58 +0000 http://www.peacebang.com/2005/08/25/ashamed-of-the-gospel/#comment-801 "when I do good, I feel good, when I do bad, I feel bad and that's my religion" - Abe Lincoln. When I walk into church I know I can do good, this is not something that needs to be instilled on a Sunday morning. What I mainly look for on a Sunday morning is community, and if people are turning to eachother with appreciative smiles it sounds like he did a good job of fostering community. Wanna call it a drug, fine. But allow me to point out some other "drugs": excercise, time spent with loved ones, intelectually stimulating conversation, reading poetry, and being as some of us are in deeply commited relationships I would hope the sex is guilt free. In fact check out the movie "What the bleep do we know" and you will see several folks basically argue all human conditioning is a drug like reaction. Deep engagement with "gospel" is part of a day to day routine, not a Sunday morning activity. <br/><br/>Oh, and I may not be perfect, but my flaws make me human, not broken. If you feel broken I am glad you have found a drug that fixes you, but please realize not everyone shares those feelings.<br/><br/>I think engagement, depth, etc. are essential, but not for every service. There is a time to laugh, a time to cry, a time to celebrate, etc. “when I do good, I feel good, when I do bad, I feel bad and that’s my religion” - Abe Lincoln. When I walk into church I know I can do good, this is not something that needs to be instilled on a Sunday morning. What I mainly look for on a Sunday morning is community, and if people are turning to eachother with appreciative smiles it sounds like he did a good job of fostering community. Wanna call it a drug, fine. But allow me to point out some other “drugs”: excercise, time spent with loved ones, intelectually stimulating conversation, reading poetry, and being as some of us are in deeply commited relationships I would hope the sex is guilt free. In fact check out the movie “What the bleep do we know” and you will see several folks basically argue all human conditioning is a drug like reaction. Deep engagement with “gospel” is part of a day to day routine, not a Sunday morning activity.

Oh, and I may not be perfect, but my flaws make me human, not broken. If you feel broken I am glad you have found a drug that fixes you, but please realize not everyone shares those feelings.

I think engagement, depth, etc. are essential, but not for every service. There is a time to laugh, a time to cry, a time to celebrate, etc.

]]> By: PeaceBang http://www.peacebang.com/2005/08/25/ashamed-of-the-gospel/#comment-800 PeaceBang Fri, 26 Aug 2005 02:44:45 +0000 http://www.peacebang.com/2005/08/25/ashamed-of-the-gospel/#comment-800 Denise, please don't credit me with that quote! I wish I was that clever! I don't know who said it, but it's a popular saying among church folk...<br/><br/>That said, in response to Fausto's response, sorry if I was defensive but I wanted to make sure no one thought I was impugning UU worship, which I think has improved so very much in the past 20 years. I visit as many UU churches as my summer months permit, and even when the service doesn't minister to me at all, I still find that folks mostly are very sincere in what they're doing and offering. <br/>Even if some of their choices make my teeth itch, I can't fault their sincerity. <br/><br/>Integrity... well, that's a different subject. Don't get me started or I might have to tell the story of the UU congregation that passed out paper dots to everyone and instructed them to wear them on their foreheads as bindhis for "Hindu Sunday." Denise, please don’t credit me with that quote! I wish I was that clever! I don’t know who said it, but it’s a popular saying among church folk…

That said, in response to Fausto’s response, sorry if I was defensive but I wanted to make sure no one thought I was impugning UU worship, which I think has improved so very much in the past 20 years. I visit as many UU churches as my summer months permit, and even when the service doesn’t minister to me at all, I still find that folks mostly are very sincere in what they’re doing and offering.
Even if some of their choices make my teeth itch, I can’t fault their sincerity.

Integrity… well, that’s a different subject. Don’t get me started or I might have to tell the story of the UU congregation that passed out paper dots to everyone and instructed them to wear them on their foreheads as bindhis for “Hindu Sunday.”

]]> By: Denise http://www.peacebang.com/2005/08/25/ashamed-of-the-gospel/#comment-799 Denise Fri, 26 Aug 2005 01:25:11 +0000 http://www.peacebang.com/2005/08/25/ashamed-of-the-gospel/#comment-799 "I'm saying that the church doesn't exist just to comfort the afflicted but also to afflict the comfortable. All of which can be done in a spirit of love and joy."<br/><br/>I loved this. Thanks! “I’m saying that the church doesn’t exist just to comfort the afflicted but also to afflict the comfortable. All of which can be done in a spirit of love and joy.”

I loved this. Thanks!

]]> By: fausto http://www.peacebang.com/2005/08/25/ashamed-of-the-gospel/#comment-798 fausto Thu, 25 Aug 2005 23:34:47 +0000 http://www.peacebang.com/2005/08/25/ashamed-of-the-gospel/#comment-798 The piece I'm still missing is why so many of the regular congregation were so effusive. I'm inferring that it must have been a very different type of service from what they were accustomed to, and satisfied a need that their usual worship style did not.<br/><br/>I'm right there on the need for depth, challenge and engagement in any denomination. I don't see Peacebang as the type of UU (we've all seen them) who takes cheap shots at other denoms while thinking her own is above all that, though. That's why I assumed there was a lesson meant specifically for us UUs in her dudgeon. The piece I’m still missing is why so many of the regular congregation were so effusive. I’m inferring that it must have been a very different type of service from what they were accustomed to, and satisfied a need that their usual worship style did not.

I’m right there on the need for depth, challenge and engagement in any denomination. I don’t see Peacebang as the type of UU (we’ve all seen them) who takes cheap shots at other denoms while thinking her own is above all that, though. That’s why I assumed there was a lesson meant specifically for us UUs in her dudgeon.

]]> By: Joe Powel http://www.peacebang.com/2005/08/25/ashamed-of-the-gospel/#comment-797 Joe Powel Thu, 25 Aug 2005 20:54:32 +0000 http://www.peacebang.com/2005/08/25/ashamed-of-the-gospel/#comment-797 Excellent blog! Please visit <a HREF="http://www.normism.org" REL="nofollow">this site</a> <br/>too! Excellent blog! Please visit this site
too!

]]> By: Roger Kuhrt, PhD http://www.peacebang.com/2005/08/25/ashamed-of-the-gospel/#comment-796 Roger Kuhrt, PhD Thu, 25 Aug 2005 20:05:44 +0000 http://www.peacebang.com/2005/08/25/ashamed-of-the-gospel/#comment-796 PB said: "It was meant to be a scathing criticism of ANY church that squirms to avoid deep engagement with its gospel"<br/><br/>Does this also refer to UU clergy who claim to "SNEAK" elements into a service of authentic worship? I fail to see how sneaking is a form of deep engagement with the gospel!<br/><br/>It's one thing to see the moat in our "brothers" eye, but miss the log in our own. PB said: “It was meant to be a scathing criticism of ANY church that squirms to avoid deep engagement with its gospel”

Does this also refer to UU clergy who claim to “SNEAK” elements into a service of authentic worship? I fail to see how sneaking is a form of deep engagement with the gospel!

It’s one thing to see the moat in our “brothers” eye, but miss the log in our own.

]]> By: Jesus del Norte http://www.peacebang.com/2005/08/25/ashamed-of-the-gospel/#comment-795 Jesus del Norte Thu, 25 Aug 2005 19:50:12 +0000 http://www.peacebang.com/2005/08/25/ashamed-of-the-gospel/#comment-795 Keep preaching the truth, sister. We need to be a prophetic voice crying in the wilderness. We need to quit eating vanilla ice cream and get on a diet of locusts and wild honey. We need a baptism of holy fire. We need to put some meat on these old dry bones and then these dry bones need to get up walk.<br/><br/>Sorry, I guess I should be using "I" language. Keep preaching the truth, sister. We need to be a prophetic voice crying in the wilderness. We need to quit eating vanilla ice cream and get on a diet of locusts and wild honey. We need a baptism of holy fire. We need to put some meat on these old dry bones and then these dry bones need to get up walk.

Sorry, I guess I should be using “I” language.

]]> By: Adam Tierney-Eliot http://www.peacebang.com/2005/08/25/ashamed-of-the-gospel/#comment-794 Adam Tierney-Eliot Thu, 25 Aug 2005 18:52:00 +0000 http://www.peacebang.com/2005/08/25/ashamed-of-the-gospel/#comment-794 I enjoyed this a great deal. As someone who often feels like a tightrope walker during Sunday services (perhaps over-concerned with the importance and sacredness of worship) I appreciate it that there are others who are bothered by the casual feel-good thing. Worship DOES mean something, after all, it should be done well and with respect for God and Congregation.<br/><br/>It also reminds me that I have been that preacher (well, not the retired part, obviously) from time to time. Thanks for stiffening me up as I prepare for Sunday.<br/><br/>God bless you PB! I enjoyed this a great deal. As someone who often feels like a tightrope walker during Sunday services (perhaps over-concerned with the importance and sacredness of worship) I appreciate it that there are others who are bothered by the casual feel-good thing. Worship DOES mean something, after all, it should be done well and with respect for God and Congregation.

It also reminds me that I have been that preacher (well, not the retired part, obviously) from time to time. Thanks for stiffening me up as I prepare for Sunday.

God bless you PB!

]]> By: Oversoul http://www.peacebang.com/2005/08/25/ashamed-of-the-gospel/#comment-793 Oversoul Thu, 25 Aug 2005 18:44:41 +0000 http://www.peacebang.com/2005/08/25/ashamed-of-the-gospel/#comment-793 This experience reminds me so much of my most recent UU worship experience, and explains why I decided not to join the congregation. I need depth-I didn't get it. This experience reminds me so much of my most recent UU worship experience, and explains why I decided not to join the congregation. I need depth-I didn’t get it.

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