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	<title>Comments on: Planning Sermons</title>
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	<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2005/12/28/planning-sermons/</link>
	<description>The manic mind of the minister -- Auntie Mame Meets Cotton Mather</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 01:15:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Adam Tierney-Eliot</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2005/12/28/planning-sermons/#comment-1192</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Tierney-Eliot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2005 17:27:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/2005/12/28/planning-sermons/#comment-1192</guid>
		<description>Hey PB, I'll keep you on the list...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey PB, I&#8217;ll keep you on the list&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: PeaceBang</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2005/12/28/planning-sermons/#comment-1191</link>
		<dc:creator>PeaceBang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2005 02:09:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/2005/12/28/planning-sermons/#comment-1191</guid>
		<description>Hi Cecily,&lt;br/&gt;Thanks for sharing your story. Very depressing and not at all unusual, I suspect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Cecily,<br />Thanks for sharing your story. Very depressing and not at all unusual, I suspect.</p>
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		<title>By: PeaceBang</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2005/12/28/planning-sermons/#comment-1190</link>
		<dc:creator>PeaceBang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2005 02:07:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/2005/12/28/planning-sermons/#comment-1190</guid>
		<description>Res, good questions and starting points for sermonic reflection. For me, the issue comes down to the inexplicable nature of sadism. It's sadists I want to drown. The average despicable criminal doesn't arouse the same kind of annhilation urges in me that a BTK does. Dare I call it intuition?&lt;br/&gt;Again, I wouldn't want a criminal justice system based on mine, or anyone else's, intuition, but my visceral reaction to BTK is one of such creeping horror that I feel I'm in the presence of something unique.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I have encountered an evil spirit in the dreamworld, and although those experiences have been terrifying, I am grateful to them for their edifying function: i.e., when I encounter the same malevolence in the waking world, my inner bell rings and says, "this is the same thing."&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Irrational, crazy, but I trust it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Res, good questions and starting points for sermonic reflection. For me, the issue comes down to the inexplicable nature of sadism. It&#8217;s sadists I want to drown. The average despicable criminal doesn&#8217;t arouse the same kind of annhilation urges in me that a BTK does. Dare I call it intuition?<br />Again, I wouldn&#8217;t want a criminal justice system based on mine, or anyone else&#8217;s, intuition, but my visceral reaction to BTK is one of such creeping horror that I feel I&#8217;m in the presence of something unique.</p>
<p>I have encountered an evil spirit in the dreamworld, and although those experiences have been terrifying, I am grateful to them for their edifying function: i.e., when I encounter the same malevolence in the waking world, my inner bell rings and says, &#8220;this is the same thing.&#8221;</p>
<p>Irrational, crazy, but I trust it.</p>
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		<title>By: birthingjourney</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2005/12/28/planning-sermons/#comment-1189</link>
		<dc:creator>birthingjourney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2005 02:07:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/2005/12/28/planning-sermons/#comment-1189</guid>
		<description>Hi PB: Thanks for your post. I have a dear friend, also a midwife, who spent 2 years in prison. She too, is a mother. Fortunately though her children were grown when she went. In her time, she witnessed and befriended so many women with children in prison. She wrote about it extensively in letters. The majority of women there were there for drug related offenses and had young children. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I was there visiting her once. In the room resembling a school cafeteria with guards at every door and window were several other prisoners with visitors. Next to us was a woman with three very young children and who I presumed was her husband. They left earlier than I did. The tears were flowing, the children were crying, "no mommy, we don't want to go. no mommy, please don't have us go. come home!" It was heartbreaking. The family left, my friend subtly smiled at her. She was taken back to her cell by a guard. (Know that each time these women have a visitor they are strip searched before and after with every orifice examined and then washed off.) My friend and I watched her go. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I asked, "what is her story?" My friend tells me, "well remember her daughter, the little girl that didn't want to leave?" "She caught her husband raping her." I say, "and..." "well, she attacked him and tried to kill him." "The man with the children is her brother who is caring for them now." I was perplexed. Why would she be in here? certainly it was self defense. My heart sank. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;There's justice for you.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I would be happy to put you in contact with my friend if you are interested. Feel free to email me at cecily@birthingjourney.com.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi PB: Thanks for your post. I have a dear friend, also a midwife, who spent 2 years in prison. She too, is a mother. Fortunately though her children were grown when she went. In her time, she witnessed and befriended so many women with children in prison. She wrote about it extensively in letters. The majority of women there were there for drug related offenses and had young children. </p>
<p>I was there visiting her once. In the room resembling a school cafeteria with guards at every door and window were several other prisoners with visitors. Next to us was a woman with three very young children and who I presumed was her husband. They left earlier than I did. The tears were flowing, the children were crying, &#8220;no mommy, we don&#8217;t want to go. no mommy, please don&#8217;t have us go. come home!&#8221; It was heartbreaking. The family left, my friend subtly smiled at her. She was taken back to her cell by a guard. (Know that each time these women have a visitor they are strip searched before and after with every orifice examined and then washed off.) My friend and I watched her go. </p>
<p>I asked, &#8220;what is her story?&#8221; My friend tells me, &#8220;well remember her daughter, the little girl that didn&#8217;t want to leave?&#8221; &#8220;She caught her husband raping her.&#8221; I say, &#8220;and&#8230;&#8221; &#8220;well, she attacked him and tried to kill him.&#8221; &#8220;The man with the children is her brother who is caring for them now.&#8221; I was perplexed. Why would she be in here? certainly it was self defense. My heart sank. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s justice for you.</p>
<p>I would be happy to put you in contact with my friend if you are interested. Feel free to email me at <a href="mailto:cecily@birthingjourney.com">cecily@birthingjourney.com</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: res publica</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2005/12/28/planning-sermons/#comment-1188</link>
		<dc:creator>res publica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2005 18:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/2005/12/28/planning-sermons/#comment-1188</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Because seminary doesn't really allow for the possibility of ontological evil in the parish.&lt;/i&gt;  Neither does Christianity, at least in the Augustinian tradition...in the parish, or anywhere else.  To say that evil is real is trivial, but to talk about ontological evil is something else altogether.  Perhaps a sermon in itself.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;On the subject of BTK: really "more" evil than "most" evil, or just more horrifying to us?  MORE evil than your average sexually abusive dad who gets his minor daughter pregnant?  In degree or kind?  More evil than the common-as-dirt parent who beats her/his children?  Why?  And if not, should we drown all child abusers?  That might feel good, but you're starting to talk about some serious numbers of dead people.  What about people who murder and who are genuinely repentant?  Are they "less" evil than a serial killer who, for all we know, is incapable of repentance?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I not carrying some torch for the redeemability of serial killers, but it might be challenging to think (or preach) about what we really mean when we make distinctions between evils, and what that says about our understanding of evil.  How bad do you have to be to be an irredeemably evil person, who gets the water treatment?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Because seminary doesn&#8217;t really allow for the possibility of ontological evil in the parish.</i>  Neither does Christianity, at least in the Augustinian tradition&#8230;in the parish, or anywhere else.  To say that evil is real is trivial, but to talk about ontological evil is something else altogether.  Perhaps a sermon in itself.</p>
<p>On the subject of BTK: really &#8220;more&#8221; evil than &#8220;most&#8221; evil, or just more horrifying to us?  MORE evil than your average sexually abusive dad who gets his minor daughter pregnant?  In degree or kind?  More evil than the common-as-dirt parent who beats her/his children?  Why?  And if not, should we drown all child abusers?  That might feel good, but you&#8217;re starting to talk about some serious numbers of dead people.  What about people who murder and who are genuinely repentant?  Are they &#8220;less&#8221; evil than a serial killer who, for all we know, is incapable of repentance?</p>
<p>I not carrying some torch for the redeemability of serial killers, but it might be challenging to think (or preach) about what we really mean when we make distinctions between evils, and what that says about our understanding of evil.  How bad do you have to be to be an irredeemably evil person, who gets the water treatment?</p>
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		<title>By: jfield</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2005/12/28/planning-sermons/#comment-1187</link>
		<dc:creator>jfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2005 18:05:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/2005/12/28/planning-sermons/#comment-1187</guid>
		<description>If you want more stories about prisoners with chidlren, I would strongly recommend Legal Services for Prisoners with Children. http://www.prisonerswithchildren.org/&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Dorsey Nunn is an amazing speaker on the topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you want more stories about prisoners with chidlren, I would strongly recommend Legal Services for Prisoners with Children. <a href="http://www.prisonerswithchildren.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.prisonerswithchildren.org/</a></p>
<p>Dorsey Nunn is an amazing speaker on the topic.</p>
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		<title>By: PeaceBang</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2005/12/28/planning-sermons/#comment-1186</link>
		<dc:creator>PeaceBang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2005 17:45:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I personally think, and I mean it, that BTK should have his head held underwater until he drowns. He is an evil being, and shouldn't be given the opportunity to redeem his life.  Not having sent all those souls out of their bodies in the manner that he did. No way nohow.&lt;br/&gt;ANYWAY, I was utterly distressed for his pastor, and got very teary when the man said, "They don't teach you how to deal with this in seminary."&lt;br/&gt;Right. Because seminary doesn't really allow for the possibility of ontological evil in the parish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I personally think, and I mean it, that BTK should have his head held underwater until he drowns. He is an evil being, and shouldn&#8217;t be given the opportunity to redeem his life.  Not having sent all those souls out of their bodies in the manner that he did. No way nohow.<br />ANYWAY, I was utterly distressed for his pastor, and got very teary when the man said, &#8220;They don&#8217;t teach you how to deal with this in seminary.&#8221;<br />Right. Because seminary doesn&#8217;t really allow for the possibility of ontological evil in the parish.</p>
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		<title>By: fausto</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2005/12/28/planning-sermons/#comment-1185</link>
		<dc:creator>fausto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2005 16:38:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Depends how much you knew about him, I guess.  His real-life pastor allowed him to serve as president of the congregation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Depends how much you knew about him, I guess.  His real-life pastor allowed him to serve as president of the congregation.</p>
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		<title>By: PeaceBang</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2005/12/28/planning-sermons/#comment-1184</link>
		<dc:creator>PeaceBang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2005 15:11:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/2005/12/28/planning-sermons/#comment-1184</guid>
		<description>Here's a challenge for you, Adam: how about asking an intentionally child-free woman to give your Mother's Day sermon? (hint, hint, pulpit exchange)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;And I'm taking the bait. I'm going to preach on March 5th on BTK, sins, secrets, the soul and Ash Wednesday. Don't have a clear sense yet of what I'll do, but I want to address the question of "What would I do if I were BTK's pastor?"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a challenge for you, Adam: how about asking an intentionally child-free woman to give your Mother&#8217;s Day sermon? (hint, hint, pulpit exchange)</p>
<p>And I&#8217;m taking the bait. I&#8217;m going to preach on March 5th on BTK, sins, secrets, the soul and Ash Wednesday. Don&#8217;t have a clear sense yet of what I&#8217;ll do, but I want to address the question of &#8220;What would I do if I were BTK&#8217;s pastor?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Tierney-Eliot</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2005/12/28/planning-sermons/#comment-1183</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Tierney-Eliot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2005 15:05:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/2005/12/28/planning-sermons/#comment-1183</guid>
		<description>Hey All,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I too, would be curious to hear what PB has to say about sociopaths and their souls.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Lately I have been interested in how religious people confront the mysteries of faith in a scientific age.  Not so much in the New Age sense but in the "Wow! I never thought of that!" sense.  This all started with a sermon on evolution and 19th century science...&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Incidentally, I always preach about parenting on Father's Day.  The text has often been Luke 1 and that story about poor old Zechariah and Elizabeth.  The only problem is that (since I am a father) it ends up sounding a lot like my Mother's Day sermon.  Any mom's out there looking for a gig?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey All,</p>
<p>I too, would be curious to hear what PB has to say about sociopaths and their souls.</p>
<p>Lately I have been interested in how religious people confront the mysteries of faith in a scientific age.  Not so much in the New Age sense but in the &#8220;Wow! I never thought of that!&#8221; sense.  This all started with a sermon on evolution and 19th century science&#8230;</p>
<p>Incidentally, I always preach about parenting on Father&#8217;s Day.  The text has often been Luke 1 and that story about poor old Zechariah and Elizabeth.  The only problem is that (since I am a father) it ends up sounding a lot like my Mother&#8217;s Day sermon.  Any mom&#8217;s out there looking for a gig?</p>
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