Comments on: What Depressed Me About GA http://www.peacebang.com/2007/07/03/what-depressed-me-about-ga/ The manic mind of the minister -- Auntie Mame Meets Cotton Mather Sat, 06 Sep 2008 07:16:51 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: KC http://www.peacebang.com/2007/07/03/what-depressed-me-about-ga/#comment-5294 KC Fri, 06 Jul 2007 17:47:17 +0000 http://www.peacebang.com/2007/07/03/what-depressed-me-about-ga/#comment-5294 I am sad - I have searched the UU community where I live and found I cannot stay in the UU church without spiritually starving to death. Perhaps there are UU churches elsewhere that are quite different, but that is not the case here. I have begun to explore the Episcopal churches and have been welcome with open arms, spiritually fed while not spiritually oppressed, find that the church is involved in social activism and supportive of their diverse congregations (ethnicity, sexual orientation etc). I thought about staying with the UUs and working toward and hoping for change, but I did not have the physical, mental, emotional or spiritual stamina to do so. My sadness stems from the rejection I experienced in the UU community when I tried to express my concerns. Sad that I could not find a home with them, sad that they have painted themselves into the corner of "my way or no way." They are a glum lot entrenched in their social activism to the point of the ridiculous - and much of what they label social activism is simply "recreational debate" which is just a wheel spinning going nowhere. I also feel betrayed, the websites I visited from these UU churches assured me how welcoming and inclusive they were.I hope UU's as a whole find a direction that brings balance and hope for their movement. I want to thank you, PB, for acknowledging these shortcomings. KC I am sad - I have searched the UU community where I live and found I cannot stay in the UU church without spiritually starving to death. Perhaps there are UU churches elsewhere that are quite different, but that is not the case here. I have begun to explore the Episcopal churches and have been welcome with open arms, spiritually fed while not spiritually oppressed, find that the church is involved in social activism and supportive of their diverse congregations (ethnicity, sexual orientation etc). I thought about staying with the UUs and working toward and hoping for change, but I did not have the physical, mental, emotional or spiritual stamina to do so. My sadness stems from the rejection I experienced in the UU community when I tried to express my concerns. Sad that I could not find a home with them, sad that they have painted themselves into the corner of “my way or no way.” They are a glum lot entrenched in their social activism to the point of the ridiculous - and much of what they label social activism is simply “recreational debate” which is just a wheel spinning going nowhere. I also feel betrayed, the websites I visited from these UU churches assured me how welcoming and inclusive they were.I hope UU’s as a whole find a direction that brings balance and hope for their movement.
I want to thank you, PB, for acknowledging these shortcomings.
KC

]]> By: Chalicechick http://www.peacebang.com/2007/07/03/what-depressed-me-about-ga/#comment-5290 Chalicechick Fri, 06 Jul 2007 14:05:49 +0000 http://www.peacebang.com/2007/07/03/what-depressed-me-about-ga/#comment-5290 ((((zealous atheist exclusivist))) If it helps, these folks haven't gotten much respect in any UU church I've ever spent time in. They are treated pretty much the way a fundamentalist would have been treated in the liberal presby church I grew up in. CC who believes that grace exists, but that it primarily manifests itself through human action. She's not sure if that means she agrees with PB or no. ((((zealous atheist exclusivist)))

If it helps, these folks haven’t gotten much respect in any UU church I’ve ever spent time in. They are treated pretty much the way a fundamentalist would have been treated in the liberal presby church I grew up in.

CC
who believes that grace exists, but that it primarily manifests itself through human action. She’s not sure if that means she agrees with PB or no.

]]> By: Doug Muder http://www.peacebang.com/2007/07/03/what-depressed-me-about-ga/#comment-5287 Doug Muder Fri, 06 Jul 2007 11:38:48 +0000 http://www.peacebang.com/2007/07/03/what-depressed-me-about-ga/#comment-5287 Citizen, The question of what the other worshippers think gets down to trust, which is where I start to have problems with many of my fellow Humanists. I believe that this part of my congregation's covenant "to seek the truth in love and to help one another" obliges me to give my fellow UUs a certain benefit of the doubt. Whatever they're doing, I trust that their path helps them be part of the healing of the world, just like mine does. Maybe for some of them that's not true, but I think it's true for enough of them that my trust is well placed. If I were going to balk at something, the first thing to balk at would be the covenant. And then I'd have to wonder if I really wanted to be part of this church. Being that my fellow parishioners are UUs, though, they're probably doing something a lot more subtle than may appear, just like me. And if watching me sing praises to God raises questions in anybody's mind, they can ask me about it at coffee hour and we'll have an interesting conversation. Citizen,

The question of what the other worshippers think gets down to trust, which is where I start to have problems with many of my fellow Humanists. I believe that this part of my congregation’s covenant “to seek the truth in love and to help one another” obliges me to give my fellow UUs a certain benefit of the doubt. Whatever they’re doing, I trust that their path helps them be part of the healing of the world, just like mine does. Maybe for some of them that’s not true, but I think it’s true for enough of them that my trust is well placed.

If I were going to balk at something, the first thing to balk at would be the covenant. And then I’d have to wonder if I really wanted to be part of this church.

Being that my fellow parishioners are UUs, though, they’re probably doing something a lot more subtle than may appear, just like me. And if watching me sing praises to God raises questions in anybody’s mind, they can ask me about it at coffee hour and we’ll have an interesting conversation.

]]> By: fausto http://www.peacebang.com/2007/07/03/what-depressed-me-about-ga/#comment-5285 fausto Fri, 06 Jul 2007 11:01:06 +0000 http://www.peacebang.com/2007/07/03/what-depressed-me-about-ga/#comment-5285 <i>What’s a “zealous atheist exclusivist?”</i> Same as a zealous Christian exclusivist, except instead of believing that everyone who isn't a born-again Christians is hopelessly lost, and probably deserves to be, because they are at best worthless but more likely also affirmatively evil, a zealous atheist exclusivist believes that about everyone who isn't an atheist. What’s a “zealous atheist exclusivist?”

Same as a zealous Christian exclusivist, except instead of believing that everyone who isn’t a born-again Christians is hopelessly lost, and probably deserves to be, because they are at best worthless but more likely also affirmatively evil, a zealous atheist exclusivist believes that about everyone who isn’t an atheist.

]]> By: Ron Robinson http://www.peacebang.com/2007/07/03/what-depressed-me-about-ga/#comment-5282 Ron Robinson Fri, 06 Jul 2007 05:31:32 +0000 http://www.peacebang.com/2007/07/03/what-depressed-me-about-ga/#comment-5282 Yvonne, to your question about the UUCF events at the Portland GA: Yes we had higher than expected attendance at our events, all of them, especially the communion service and the Kathleen Norris lecture and the off-GA program grid dinner and hymn sing and meeting. Each of these events had more people in attendance than we have had before at similiar GA events. And it wasn't just because the number of folks was up overall at Portland. We had more at these events than we did at our events at the 2003 Boston GA which had a few thousand more folks than the Portland GA. Kathleen Norris said, I believe, that her lecture to UUs was the largest audience or certainly close to it that she has ever had. We are looking at having our largest Revival ever this year in Cleveland, especially as we our co-sponsoring it with the Cleveland Ecumenical Institute and bringing in John Dominic Crossan to give three lectures on Paul as one of the key features to Revival. More at www.uuchristian.org/revival/ blessings, Ron Robinson, Executive Director, UUCF Yvonne, to your question about the UUCF events at the Portland GA: Yes we had higher than expected attendance at our events, all of them, especially the communion service and the Kathleen Norris lecture and the off-GA program grid dinner and hymn sing and meeting. Each of these events had more people in attendance than we have had before at similiar GA events. And it wasn’t just because the number of folks was up overall at Portland. We had more at these events than we did at our events at the 2003 Boston GA which had a few thousand more folks than the Portland GA. Kathleen Norris said, I believe, that her lecture to UUs was the largest audience or certainly close to it that she has ever had. We are looking at having our largest Revival ever this year in Cleveland, especially as we our co-sponsoring it with the Cleveland Ecumenical Institute and bringing in John Dominic Crossan to give three lectures on Paul as one of the key features to Revival. More at http://www.uuchristian.org/revival/

blessings, Ron Robinson, Executive Director, UUCF

]]> By: ogre http://www.peacebang.com/2007/07/03/what-depressed-me-about-ga/#comment-5280 ogre Fri, 06 Jul 2007 04:35:27 +0000 http://www.peacebang.com/2007/07/03/what-depressed-me-about-ga/#comment-5280 Citizen, “Zealous atheist exclusivist?” refers to those (I'm guessing) who exude disdain, hostility and disbelief when some UU lets slip that they hold to some idea that the ZAE in question sneers at. An example, from a woman I knew who was VP of her congregation's board. She found that a substantial and key group of long-time members had that attitude. She was what she called (her term) a "recovering Catholic," theistic, in some (to me) undefined, somewhat deist manner. Her husband was an Atheist (not hostile, however). On hearing that she believed in god, the response she got boiled down to "Why would anyone who believed in god be a UU?" Staggering, to me, at least. I grew up UU. I've never been any form of Christian--but I'm on record, publicly (while president of our board) that I'd be delighted if the UU Christians in our congregation chose to hold a Bible study and to hold communion, too--just as we have a Buddhist study group. Just as I'd be happy if each and every one of our theological subcommunities did. It's the exclusivism that's really bad form and very non-UU. The zeal is merely gauche. Citizen,

“Zealous atheist exclusivist?” refers to those (I’m guessing) who exude disdain, hostility and disbelief when some UU lets slip that they hold to some idea that the ZAE in question sneers at. An example, from a woman I knew who was VP of her congregation’s board. She found that a substantial and key group of long-time members had that attitude. She was what she called (her term) a “recovering Catholic,” theistic, in some (to me) undefined, somewhat deist manner. Her husband was an Atheist (not hostile, however). On hearing that she believed in god, the response she got boiled down to “Why would anyone who believed in god be a UU?”

Staggering, to me, at least. I grew up UU. I’ve never been any form of Christian–but I’m on record, publicly (while president of our board) that I’d be delighted if the UU Christians in our congregation chose to hold a Bible study and to hold communion, too–just as we have a Buddhist study group. Just as I’d be happy if each and every one of our theological subcommunities did.

It’s the exclusivism that’s really bad form and very non-UU. The zeal is merely gauche.

]]> By: Frank Vaughan http://www.peacebang.com/2007/07/03/what-depressed-me-about-ga/#comment-5279 Frank Vaughan Fri, 06 Jul 2007 01:56:31 +0000 http://www.peacebang.com/2007/07/03/what-depressed-me-about-ga/#comment-5279 Some good news here, some of us do sponsor mission trips to New Orleans, working side by side with Baptists! Old, middles, young and youth went. It was transcendental! http://horizonhammers.blogspot.com/ Some good news here, some of us do sponsor mission trips to New Orleans, working side by side with Baptists! Old, middles, young and youth went. It was transcendental!

http://horizonhammers.blogspot.com/

]]> By: tinythinker http://www.peacebang.com/2007/07/03/what-depressed-me-about-ga/#comment-5276 tinythinker Thu, 05 Jul 2007 19:26:22 +0000 http://www.peacebang.com/2007/07/03/what-depressed-me-about-ga/#comment-5276 I was <a href="http://peacefulturmoil.blogspot.com/2006/10/interreligious-understanding-and-uua.html" rel="nofollow">pondering some of these same issues pertaining to UUism and interreligious understanding</a> last fall, in particular the Principles of UUism, and how they match other attempts at interfaith interaction. In particular I was struck by the potential usefulness and clarity of another set of principles I had seen elsewhere... <b>The Snowmass Conference's Guidelines for Interreligious Understanding:</b> 1. The world religions bear witness to the experience of the Ultimate Reality to which they give various names: Brahman, the Absolute, God, Allah, (the) Great Spirit, the Transcendent. 2. The Ultimate Reality surpasses any name or concept that can be given to It. 3. The Ultimate Reality is the source (ground of being) of all existence. 4. Faith is opening, surrendering, and responding to the Ultimate Reality. This relationship precedes every belief system. 5. The potential for human wholeness -- or in other frames of reference, liberation, self-transcendence, enlightenment, salvation, transforming union, moksha, nirvana, fana -- is present in every human person. 6. The Ultimate Reality may be experienced not only through religious practices but also through nature, art, human relationships and service to others. 7. The differences among belief systems should be presented as facts that distinguish them, not as points of superiority. 8. In the light of the globalization of life and culture now in process, the personal and social ethical principles proposed by the world religions in the past need to be re-thought and re-expressed. -from <i>Speaking of Silence: Christian and Buddhists on the Contemplative Way</i> by Thomas Keating I was pondering some of these same issues pertaining to UUism and interreligious understanding last fall, in particular the Principles of UUism, and how they match other attempts at interfaith interaction. In particular I was struck by the potential usefulness and clarity of another set of principles I had seen elsewhere…

The Snowmass Conference’s Guidelines for Interreligious Understanding:

1. The world religions bear witness to the experience of the Ultimate Reality to which they give various names: Brahman, the Absolute, God, Allah, (the) Great Spirit, the Transcendent.

2. The Ultimate Reality surpasses any name or concept that can be given to It.

3. The Ultimate Reality is the source (ground of being) of all existence.

4. Faith is opening, surrendering, and responding to the Ultimate Reality. This relationship precedes every belief system.

5. The potential for human wholeness — or in other frames of reference, liberation, self-transcendence, enlightenment, salvation, transforming union, moksha, nirvana, fana — is present in every human person.

6. The Ultimate Reality may be experienced not only through religious practices but also through nature, art, human relationships and service to others.

7. The differences among belief systems should be presented as facts that distinguish them, not as points of superiority.

8. In the light of the globalization of life and culture now in process, the personal and social ethical principles proposed by the world religions in the past need to be re-thought and re-expressed.

-from Speaking of Silence: Christian and Buddhists on the Contemplative Way by Thomas Keating

]]> By: Citizen http://www.peacebang.com/2007/07/03/what-depressed-me-about-ga/#comment-5273 Citizen Thu, 05 Jul 2007 17:51:35 +0000 http://www.peacebang.com/2007/07/03/what-depressed-me-about-ga/#comment-5273 <i>The problem that we UUs need to wrestle with, though isn’t quite that one. I don’t know any zealous UU Christian exclusivists. The problem that we need more urgently to address is that there are also few things as scary and offensive as a zealous atheist exclusivist.</i> What's a "zealous atheist exclusivist?" The problem that we UUs need to wrestle with, though isn’t quite that one. I don’t know any zealous UU Christian exclusivists. The problem that we need more urgently to address is that there are also few things as scary and offensive as a zealous atheist exclusivist.

What’s a “zealous atheist exclusivist?”

]]> By: Citizen http://www.peacebang.com/2007/07/03/what-depressed-me-about-ga/#comment-5271 Citizen Thu, 05 Jul 2007 17:09:41 +0000 http://www.peacebang.com/2007/07/03/what-depressed-me-about-ga/#comment-5271 Doug, That's pretty good, except that, as you say, we all know that the people on the screen are actors, and so you are right, there is no need to point that out to fellow movie-goers. Everyone does not know that when it comes to religion. That little fact seriously hurts the analogy. The sight of Humanists "worshipping" (if an activity akin to watching a movie can be called worship), might reinforce the beliefs of the people who think that the movie is real, and is that an outcome that Humanists should be happy about, if it occurs? Doug,

That’s pretty good, except that, as you say, we all know that the people on the screen are actors, and so you are right, there is no need to point that out to fellow movie-goers.

Everyone does not know that when it comes to religion. That little fact seriously hurts the analogy. The sight of Humanists “worshipping” (if an activity akin to watching a movie can be called worship), might reinforce the beliefs of the people who think that the movie is real, and is that an outcome that Humanists should be happy about, if it occurs?

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