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	<title>Comments on: Shopping For Religion</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.peacebang.com/2008/02/29/shopping-for-religion/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/02/29/shopping-for-religion/</link>
	<description>The manic mind of the minister -- Auntie Mame Meets Cotton Mather</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:18:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Saul</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/02/29/shopping-for-religion/#comment-14240</link>
		<dc:creator>Saul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 15:07:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/2008/02/29/shopping-for-religion/#comment-14240</guid>
		<description>It seems like Unitarian-Universalism has given up on being a church or religious community - and is now more akin to a interfaith club...

That's a shame because traditional Unitarian and Universalist thought is actually quite radical - and continues to be an alternative to the bigger religions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems like Unitarian-Universalism has given up on being a church or religious community - and is now more akin to a interfaith club&#8230;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a shame because traditional Unitarian and Universalist thought is actually quite radical - and continues to be an alternative to the bigger religions.</p>
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		<title>By: Comrade Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/02/29/shopping-for-religion/#comment-14200</link>
		<dc:creator>Comrade Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 00:39:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/2008/02/29/shopping-for-religion/#comment-14200</guid>
		<description>Quakers have run into the very same problems in recent days.  We refer to those who convert to the faith as "convinced Friends" and I am proud to be one of them.  

One of our problems is that for around 100 years or so, during our Quiet Period, we decided that we were so misunderstood that we did not accept new converts, period.  

Our numbers, which had never been great, shrank and shrank and now we are even smaller in number than UUs, although thanks to Madison Avenue and historical precedent, we have name recognition.  Everyone knows the name "Quaker", though they are hard pressed to think of one they know of in the greater world or someone they actually know or have encountered in their own lives.

The challenges we face are very similar to the ones you face.  The unwillingness to evangelize (except for Conservative and Evangelical Quakers) is one of the reasons why our numbers stay so small, we do not hold onto what we have, and we remain buried and unseen.  

I think the most important think we can emphasize is WHY church/meeting/congregation and WHY is it important?  As we have shifted away from a sense of communal sharing into individual desires we have increasingly fractured into smaller and smaller boxes.  This is postmodern excess and a sort of cancerous growth of unrestrained ego that will be difficult to reverse.  

I don't pretend to know all the answers, though I am willing to take a guess as to how we collectively might come up with a good solution.  Finding a sense of common purpose is a good start, then finding a way to walk that tenuous tightrope between "be one of us" and "be yourself".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quakers have run into the very same problems in recent days.  We refer to those who convert to the faith as &#8220;convinced Friends&#8221; and I am proud to be one of them.  </p>
<p>One of our problems is that for around 100 years or so, during our Quiet Period, we decided that we were so misunderstood that we did not accept new converts, period.  </p>
<p>Our numbers, which had never been great, shrank and shrank and now we are even smaller in number than UUs, although thanks to Madison Avenue and historical precedent, we have name recognition.  Everyone knows the name &#8220;Quaker&#8221;, though they are hard pressed to think of one they know of in the greater world or someone they actually know or have encountered in their own lives.</p>
<p>The challenges we face are very similar to the ones you face.  The unwillingness to evangelize (except for Conservative and Evangelical Quakers) is one of the reasons why our numbers stay so small, we do not hold onto what we have, and we remain buried and unseen.  </p>
<p>I think the most important think we can emphasize is WHY church/meeting/congregation and WHY is it important?  As we have shifted away from a sense of communal sharing into individual desires we have increasingly fractured into smaller and smaller boxes.  This is postmodern excess and a sort of cancerous growth of unrestrained ego that will be difficult to reverse.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t pretend to know all the answers, though I am willing to take a guess as to how we collectively might come up with a good solution.  Finding a sense of common purpose is a good start, then finding a way to walk that tenuous tightrope between &#8220;be one of us&#8221; and &#8220;be yourself&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth Barrett</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/02/29/shopping-for-religion/#comment-14156</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth Barrett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 19:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/2008/02/29/shopping-for-religion/#comment-14156</guid>
		<description>"...our ad campaigns and too many of our members and our outdated promotional pamphlets and books still frame us as the alternative TO religion."

I definitely agree! Sometimes, I get a "teensy beansy" bit tired of those who don't think we're a religion. A few years ago, the Freedom from Religion Foundation sent a mailing to every member of my UU congregation. The organization promotes Church/state separation, but made a poor choice in naming themselves, in my opinion. Some of us were insulted when we received that mailing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;our ad campaigns and too many of our members and our outdated promotional pamphlets and books still frame us as the alternative TO religion.&#8221;</p>
<p>I definitely agree! Sometimes, I get a &#8220;teensy beansy&#8221; bit tired of those who don&#8217;t think we&#8217;re a religion. A few years ago, the Freedom from Religion Foundation sent a mailing to every member of my UU congregation. The organization promotes Church/state separation, but made a poor choice in naming themselves, in my opinion. Some of us were insulted when we received that mailing.</p>
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		<title>By: tinythinker</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/02/29/shopping-for-religion/#comment-14155</link>
		<dc:creator>tinythinker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 19:18:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/2008/02/29/shopping-for-religion/#comment-14155</guid>
		<description>Oh, yes, and having read that piece by Miss Theologian on &lt;a href="http://survivingtheworkday.com/2008/02/27/why-i-dont-go-to-church/" rel="nofollow"&gt;"Why I Don't Go to Church"&lt;/a&gt;, I would tend to agree with points one and three.  For me, the observation "I think I have a sense of what church is about for UUs, and church isn’t for me right now" goes back to what I've already quoted above (it may not be the same for Miss Theologian).  And as for "I felt woefully out of place in the UU churches I attended", I would also agree that the last one I went to (twice this past fall after I moved to a new area) also seemed to be centered on people with kids or people who are retired.  That really didn't bother me though in the same way it seemed to bother Miss Theologian, but I did have a "I don't really fit in here" vibe as well.  

That said, hey, if the congregations are really serving the spiritual needs of their members, then rock on.  They don't have to match everyone's whim, let alone mine.  In fact, too much of that concern can sometimes a UU congregation's problem.  It isn't and shouldn't be just about numbers.  An awesome ministry that can truly be a blessing to 40-50 people is way better than a popular 400-500 member congregation that fails to address the spiritual needs of most of its members.  

(Scoots quickly back to the lurkers' corner...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, yes, and having read that piece by Miss Theologian on <a href="http://survivingtheworkday.com/2008/02/27/why-i-dont-go-to-church/" rel="nofollow">&#8220;Why I Don&#8217;t Go to Church&#8221;</a>, I would tend to agree with points one and three.  For me, the observation &#8220;I think I have a sense of what church is about for UUs, and church isn’t for me right now&#8221; goes back to what I&#8217;ve already quoted above (it may not be the same for Miss Theologian).  And as for &#8220;I felt woefully out of place in the UU churches I attended&#8221;, I would also agree that the last one I went to (twice this past fall after I moved to a new area) also seemed to be centered on people with kids or people who are retired.  That really didn&#8217;t bother me though in the same way it seemed to bother Miss Theologian, but I did have a &#8220;I don&#8217;t really fit in here&#8221; vibe as well.  </p>
<p>That said, hey, if the congregations are really serving the spiritual needs of their members, then rock on.  They don&#8217;t have to match everyone&#8217;s whim, let alone mine.  In fact, too much of that concern can sometimes a UU congregation&#8217;s problem.  It isn&#8217;t and shouldn&#8217;t be just about numbers.  An awesome ministry that can truly be a blessing to 40-50 people is way better than a popular 400-500 member congregation that fails to address the spiritual needs of most of its members.  </p>
<p>(Scoots quickly back to the lurkers&#8217; corner&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: tinythinker</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/02/29/shopping-for-religion/#comment-14154</link>
		<dc:creator>tinythinker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:58:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/2008/02/29/shopping-for-religion/#comment-14154</guid>
		<description>I apologize for what seems like promoting my blog, but having once written about such issues as they relate to UUism, and since an actual UU minister is writing about it now, I figured this would be a good time/place to share :o)

Relating to the idea of shopping for religion, I had &lt;a href="http://peacefulturmoil.blogspot.com/2007/07/whopper-hold-bun.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;used the example of comparing UUism to Burger King&lt;/a&gt;, but analogies side, here is where I was going:
&lt;blockquote&gt;In Have-it-your-way-ism, this might sound like speaking in many ways of One Truth beyond any one sacred tradition but which can also unite them all.

So, if we put these elements together, it would go something like this: Addressing the urgent questions of life and creating a sacred space in which to open ourselves in common liturgy and private reflection to the transcendent by drawing on insights from various sacred traditions pointing to (the) ineffable Ultimate Reality.

It's not complete - the description could be fleshed out a little more, but it certain is a good start for outlining the parameters in which our individual tastes can operate. In other words, these are like the bun and the cup. We may quibble about what goes in each, but they are the basic necessities. The liturgy or order of service in and of themselves are simply the wrapper.

So looking at things such as the current and upcoming themes for services in most area UU congregations, the large majority of what I see is about social justice, social justice, learning about other cultures in general, social justice, what it means to be a UU, what it should mean to be a UU, what it could mean to be a UU, social justice, and important figures in UU/social justice history. Maybe it's just timing. I don't know. Maybe there is more to it than what it looks like. I can't say for sure. But the impression I am generally left with, and not just from a survey of current service topics, is that the stuff I am looking for is there mostly for show, perhaps given lip-service, and certainly played up on the UUA website and promotional materials.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I also have wondered how much &lt;a href="http://peacefulturmoil.blogspot.com/2006/10/interreligious-understanding-and-uua.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;the UUA could benefit&lt;/a&gt; from examining and incorporating statements from interreligious dialogs such as the following set of principles from the Snowmass Conference:
&lt;blockquote&gt;1. The world religions bear witness to the experience of the Ultimate Reality to which they give various names: Brahman, the Absolute, God, Allah, (the) Great Spirit, the Transcendent.

2. The Ultimate Reality surpasses any name or concept that can be given to It.

3. The Ultimate Reality is the source (ground of being) of all existence.

4. Faith is opening, surrendering, and responding to the Ultimate Reality. This relationship precedes every belief system.

5. The potential for human wholeness -- or in other frames of reference, liberation, self-transcendence, enlightenment, salvation, transforming union, moksha, nirvana, fana -- is present in every human person.

6. The Ultimate Reality may be experienced not only through religious practices but also through nature, art, human relationships and service to others.

7. The differences among belief systems should be presented as facts that distinguish them, not as points of superiority.

8. In the light of the globalization of life and culture now in process, the personal and social ethical principles proposed by the world religions in the past need to be re-thought and re-expressed.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
OK, well, thanks for providing a chance to toss in my thoughts as a lurker and a person who maintains an interest in (the fate of) UUism.

[&lt;em&gt;Thanks for taking the time, Tiny. I cracked up - but in a wry way - at your description of typical UU services. I'm afraid you're all too correct there. I've enjoyed reading your comment and hope others have too. - PB&lt;/em&gt;]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I apologize for what seems like promoting my blog, but having once written about such issues as they relate to UUism, and since an actual UU minister is writing about it now, I figured this would be a good time/place to share :o)</p>
<p>Relating to the idea of shopping for religion, I had <a href="http://peacefulturmoil.blogspot.com/2007/07/whopper-hold-bun.html" rel="nofollow">used the example of comparing UUism to Burger King</a>, but analogies side, here is where I was going:</p>
<blockquote><p>In Have-it-your-way-ism, this might sound like speaking in many ways of One Truth beyond any one sacred tradition but which can also unite them all.</p>
<p>So, if we put these elements together, it would go something like this: Addressing the urgent questions of life and creating a sacred space in which to open ourselves in common liturgy and private reflection to the transcendent by drawing on insights from various sacred traditions pointing to (the) ineffable Ultimate Reality.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not complete - the description could be fleshed out a little more, but it certain is a good start for outlining the parameters in which our individual tastes can operate. In other words, these are like the bun and the cup. We may quibble about what goes in each, but they are the basic necessities. The liturgy or order of service in and of themselves are simply the wrapper.</p>
<p>So looking at things such as the current and upcoming themes for services in most area UU congregations, the large majority of what I see is about social justice, social justice, learning about other cultures in general, social justice, what it means to be a UU, what it should mean to be a UU, what it could mean to be a UU, social justice, and important figures in UU/social justice history. Maybe it&#8217;s just timing. I don&#8217;t know. Maybe there is more to it than what it looks like. I can&#8217;t say for sure. But the impression I am generally left with, and not just from a survey of current service topics, is that the stuff I am looking for is there mostly for show, perhaps given lip-service, and certainly played up on the UUA website and promotional materials.</p></blockquote>
<p>I also have wondered how much <a href="http://peacefulturmoil.blogspot.com/2006/10/interreligious-understanding-and-uua.html" rel="nofollow">the UUA could benefit</a> from examining and incorporating statements from interreligious dialogs such as the following set of principles from the Snowmass Conference:</p>
<blockquote><p>1. The world religions bear witness to the experience of the Ultimate Reality to which they give various names: Brahman, the Absolute, God, Allah, (the) Great Spirit, the Transcendent.</p>
<p>2. The Ultimate Reality surpasses any name or concept that can be given to It.</p>
<p>3. The Ultimate Reality is the source (ground of being) of all existence.</p>
<p>4. Faith is opening, surrendering, and responding to the Ultimate Reality. This relationship precedes every belief system.</p>
<p>5. The potential for human wholeness &#8212; or in other frames of reference, liberation, self-transcendence, enlightenment, salvation, transforming union, moksha, nirvana, fana &#8212; is present in every human person.</p>
<p>6. The Ultimate Reality may be experienced not only through religious practices but also through nature, art, human relationships and service to others.</p>
<p>7. The differences among belief systems should be presented as facts that distinguish them, not as points of superiority.</p>
<p>8. In the light of the globalization of life and culture now in process, the personal and social ethical principles proposed by the world religions in the past need to be re-thought and re-expressed.</p></blockquote>
<p>OK, well, thanks for providing a chance to toss in my thoughts as a lurker and a person who maintains an interest in (the fate of) UUism.</p>
<p>[<em>Thanks for taking the time, Tiny. I cracked up - but in a wry way - at your description of typical UU services. I&#8217;m afraid you&#8217;re all too correct there. I&#8217;ve enjoyed reading your comment and hope others have too. - PB</em>]</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Merino</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/02/29/shopping-for-religion/#comment-14152</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Merino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:42:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/2008/02/29/shopping-for-religion/#comment-14152</guid>
		<description>Boy, I just read your post again and you are right on! I just commented on Philocrites' post on this issue and I'll be blogging about it myself soon. This stuff is right up my alley.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boy, I just read your post again and you are right on! I just commented on Philocrites&#8217; post on this issue and I&#8217;ll be blogging about it myself soon. This stuff is right up my alley.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Merino</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/02/29/shopping-for-religion/#comment-14150</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Merino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:16:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/2008/02/29/shopping-for-religion/#comment-14150</guid>
		<description>I think you misunderstand the 44% thing. That is the percent of Americans that have at some point switched, even if it's just from one denomination to another. 

I'm a sociologist of religion (well, grad student in this area). I'm very familiar with the Pew findings and I'm actually writing a paper on the growing percentage of Americans with no religious preference (people who say "none" when asked what they are). This group is at about 16% of the population, and yes, many of them were raised with a religion. 

I think you're analysis of why there are so many more people that identify as UU than belong to a congregation is right on! What you said is basically confirmed by sociological research. Thanks for sharing that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you misunderstand the 44% thing. That is the percent of Americans that have at some point switched, even if it&#8217;s just from one denomination to another. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m a sociologist of religion (well, grad student in this area). I&#8217;m very familiar with the Pew findings and I&#8217;m actually writing a paper on the growing percentage of Americans with no religious preference (people who say &#8220;none&#8221; when asked what they are). This group is at about 16% of the population, and yes, many of them were raised with a religion. </p>
<p>I think you&#8217;re analysis of why there are so many more people that identify as UU than belong to a congregation is right on! What you said is basically confirmed by sociological research. Thanks for sharing that.</p>
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		<title>By: Chalicechick</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/02/29/shopping-for-religion/#comment-14148</link>
		<dc:creator>Chalicechick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 17:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/2008/02/29/shopping-for-religion/#comment-14148</guid>
		<description>I'm confused by her confusion.  My grandfather on my father's side grew up in East Texas and ran a small grocery store and later gas station.

Why?

Because running a grocery store in East Texas is what HIS father did.  

I do live in the same town where I grew up, though I have a completely different job than what either of my parents did.  Most people I know don't live where they grew up and don't do what their parents did. They've foudn locations and jobs that are good fits for them and their values.

I'm surprised Ms. Goodman thinks religion would be any different. 

CC</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m confused by her confusion.  My grandfather on my father&#8217;s side grew up in East Texas and ran a small grocery store and later gas station.</p>
<p>Why?</p>
<p>Because running a grocery store in East Texas is what HIS father did.  </p>
<p>I do live in the same town where I grew up, though I have a completely different job than what either of my parents did.  Most people I know don&#8217;t live where they grew up and don&#8217;t do what their parents did. They&#8217;ve foudn locations and jobs that are good fits for them and their values.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m surprised Ms. Goodman thinks religion would be any different. </p>
<p>CC</p>
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		<title>By: Jaume</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/02/29/shopping-for-religion/#comment-14143</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaume</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 16:16:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/2008/02/29/shopping-for-religion/#comment-14143</guid>
		<description>Basically, what that UUA page says is that Unitarian Universalism is empty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Basically, what that UUA page says is that Unitarian Universalism is empty.</p>
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		<title>By: The Eclectic Cleric</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/02/29/shopping-for-religion/#comment-14141</link>
		<dc:creator>The Eclectic Cleric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:39:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/2008/02/29/shopping-for-religion/#comment-14141</guid>
		<description>Hola PB -- you forgot to mention me as someone who has also written recently about this issue.  Of course, I wrote about it "in-house" so there's no reason you would know either: &lt;a href="http://firstparishportland.blogspot.com/2008/03/eclectic-cleric-springing-forward.html" rel="nofollow"&gt; Springing Forward &lt;/a&gt;
[&lt;em&gt;I didn't forget to mention you, hon... but you've just revealed my little secret: I am VERY bad at keeping up with my reading of other blogs! I try! - PB&lt;/em&gt;]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hola PB &#8212; you forgot to mention me as someone who has also written recently about this issue.  Of course, I wrote about it &#8220;in-house&#8221; so there&#8217;s no reason you would know either: <a href="http://firstparishportland.blogspot.com/2008/03/eclectic-cleric-springing-forward.html" rel="nofollow"> Springing Forward </a><br />
[<em>I didn&#8217;t forget to mention you, hon&#8230; but you&#8217;ve just revealed my little secret: I am VERY bad at keeping up with my reading of other blogs! I try! - PB</em>]</p>
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