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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;When In Doubt, Pray. When In Prayer, Have an Existential Crisis.&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/04/12/when-in-doubt-pray-when-in-prayer-have-an-existential-crisis/</link>
	<description>The manic mind of the minister -- Auntie Mame Meets Cotton Mather</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:25:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: NDM</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/04/12/when-in-doubt-pray-when-in-prayer-have-an-existential-crisis/#comment-16793</link>
		<dc:creator>NDM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 21:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/?p=1529#comment-16793</guid>
		<description>[Sorry first post didn't quite paste correctly]

This whole UU campaign reminds me of the marketing attempts of a former employer; the commercials were so silly, so intent on being "clever" that they were just awful.  Even my grandmother made a point of telling me how bad they were.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, the United Methodists and the UCC have well modeled how to advertise religion.  This "we're a religion, but not really-if that sort of thing bugs you, but if it doesn't, well then we are.  or are we?  come on in to find out!" doesn't appeal to me, anyway.

Bree on Desperate Housewives referred to Unitarians as “Anything Goes”. Welcome back Desperate Housewives!

I just knew as soon as that episode was going to address church-shopping that such a comment about Unitarians wasn't far behind!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[Sorry first post didn&#8217;t quite paste correctly]</p>
<p>This whole UU campaign reminds me of the marketing attempts of a former employer; the commercials were so silly, so intent on being &#8220;clever&#8221; that they were just awful.  Even my grandmother made a point of telling me how bad they were.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve said it before, and I&#8217;ll say it again, the United Methodists and the UCC have well modeled how to advertise religion.  This &#8220;we&#8217;re a religion, but not really-if that sort of thing bugs you, but if it doesn&#8217;t, well then we are.  or are we?  come on in to find out!&#8221; doesn&#8217;t appeal to me, anyway.</p>
<p>Bree on Desperate Housewives referred to Unitarians as “Anything Goes”. Welcome back Desperate Housewives!</p>
<p>I just knew as soon as that episode was going to address church-shopping that such a comment about Unitarians wasn&#8217;t far behind!</p>
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		<title>By: NDM</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/04/12/when-in-doubt-pray-when-in-prayer-have-an-existential-crisis/#comment-16791</link>
		<dc:creator>NDM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 21:55:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/?p=1529#comment-16791</guid>
		<description>This whole UU campaign reminds me of the marketing attempts of a former employer; the commercials were so silly, so intent on being "clever" that they were just awful.  Even my grandmother made a point of telling me how bad they were.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, the United Methodists and the UCC have well modeled how to advertise religion.  This "we're a religion, but not really-if that sort of thing bugs you, but if it doesn't, well then we are.  or are we?  come on in to find out!"

"Bree on Desperate Housewives referred to Unitarians as “Anything Goes”. Welcome back Desperate Housewives!"

I just knew as soon as that episode was going to address church-shopping that such a comment about Unitarians wasn't far behind!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This whole UU campaign reminds me of the marketing attempts of a former employer; the commercials were so silly, so intent on being &#8220;clever&#8221; that they were just awful.  Even my grandmother made a point of telling me how bad they were.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve said it before, and I&#8217;ll say it again, the United Methodists and the UCC have well modeled how to advertise religion.  This &#8220;we&#8217;re a religion, but not really-if that sort of thing bugs you, but if it doesn&#8217;t, well then we are.  or are we?  come on in to find out!&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Bree on Desperate Housewives referred to Unitarians as “Anything Goes”. Welcome back Desperate Housewives!&#8221;</p>
<p>I just knew as soon as that episode was going to address church-shopping that such a comment about Unitarians wasn&#8217;t far behind!</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Tidwell</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/04/12/when-in-doubt-pray-when-in-prayer-have-an-existential-crisis/#comment-16742</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Tidwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 04:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/?p=1529#comment-16742</guid>
		<description>http://eldithadisciple.livejournal.com/39170.html#cutid1

I wrote out a long and weakly written reply to this on my blog, but the jist of it is that I think there are a number of people who would respond well to an ad like this as I am one of the people who would have loved to have discovered the religion in this fashion.

I think the ad does what it is supposed to do. It catches your attention and makes you curious. 

For a fuller more arguementative post, please click the link provided. Ta.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://eldithadisciple.livejournal.com/39170.html#cutid1" rel="nofollow">http://eldithadisciple.livejournal.com/39170.html#cutid1</a></p>
<p>I wrote out a long and weakly written reply to this on my blog, but the jist of it is that I think there are a number of people who would respond well to an ad like this as I am one of the people who would have loved to have discovered the religion in this fashion.</p>
<p>I think the ad does what it is supposed to do. It catches your attention and makes you curious. </p>
<p>For a fuller more arguementative post, please click the link provided. Ta.</p>
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		<title>By: h sofia</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/04/12/when-in-doubt-pray-when-in-prayer-have-an-existential-crisis/#comment-16713</link>
		<dc:creator>h sofia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 18:10:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/?p=1529#comment-16713</guid>
		<description>Well, to be honest, I don't know that UUs ever agree on an ad campaign. When I first learned about the 7 Principles, I was amazed it was able to be agreed upon. Later, I met lots of UUs who didn't like them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, to be honest, I don&#8217;t know that UUs ever agree on an ad campaign. When I first learned about the 7 Principles, I was amazed it was able to be agreed upon. Later, I met lots of UUs who didn&#8217;t like them.</p>
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		<title>By: Dianne</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/04/12/when-in-doubt-pray-when-in-prayer-have-an-existential-crisis/#comment-16670</link>
		<dc:creator>Dianne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 03:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/?p=1529#comment-16670</guid>
		<description>What I want to know is, why is it that the one thing a seeker after truth is forbidden to do is to find it? That's what "When in prayer, doubt" says to me. "If you want to hang with us cool kids, don't ever let go of your sophisticated and detached disdain for faith."  Bah. 

And I think Kim's revision is the best: "When in prayer, listen." 

And to Lizard Eater, may your daughter be well and your prayers be answered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I want to know is, why is it that the one thing a seeker after truth is forbidden to do is to find it? That&#8217;s what &#8220;When in prayer, doubt&#8221; says to me. &#8220;If you want to hang with us cool kids, don&#8217;t ever let go of your sophisticated and detached disdain for faith.&#8221;  Bah. </p>
<p>And I think Kim&#8217;s revision is the best: &#8220;When in prayer, listen.&#8221; </p>
<p>And to Lizard Eater, may your daughter be well and your prayers be answered.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/04/12/when-in-doubt-pray-when-in-prayer-have-an-existential-crisis/#comment-16647</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 22:26:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/?p=1529#comment-16647</guid>
		<description>I don't particularly like this ad either - I am tired of primarily defining ourselves in negative terms, too.  It is little better than those bumper stickers they put out a few years ago "The Different Denomination" - different than what?  [&lt;em&gt;Jerry, it was actually "The Uncommon Denomination" -- which, of course, implies that every other faith tradition is "common."  Not to mention its similarity to the 7-Up ad, "the UN-Cola" and to add insult to injury, we're not technically a denomination but an association of congregations. - PB]&lt;/em&gt; This ad at least has some content, even though it is still framed negatively.

But I do not think the ad is quite SO terrible, either.  In New England and other areas the kind of religious diversity and flexibility UU's take for granted is shared by many other faith communities, but there are many places where this is not true at all - many places where the kind of approach to prayer the ad promotes would be a revelation.

Although I do not think our primary mode of self-definition should be in negetaive terms, what we do not do and who we are not is still important because it does still distinguish us from most other religious communities - even in liberal places like New England.  Sure, there are many liberal and progressive Episcopalians, Catholics, etc. out there, but they are often in conflict with their own faith communities.  These other faiths are not as comfortable with doubt - whether in prayer or in other contexts and are expressed in their internal disputes about gay bishops, activist laity, and other things - which are not issues for UUs in nearly the same way.

And i don't think these other faiths will be much insulted - or even upset by these ads.  Who will be upset most are all the UU humanists appalled at having their religion advertised as "praying."

All that being said, I think the slogans you suggested would be much better - more positive, substantive, and accurate.  It is always more powerful to talk about who we are and what we do, than who and what we are not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t particularly like this ad either - I am tired of primarily defining ourselves in negative terms, too.  It is little better than those bumper stickers they put out a few years ago &#8220;The Different Denomination&#8221; - different than what?  [<em>Jerry, it was actually &#8220;The Uncommon Denomination&#8221; &#8212; which, of course, implies that every other faith tradition is &#8220;common.&#8221;  Not to mention its similarity to the 7-Up ad, &#8220;the UN-Cola&#8221; and to add insult to injury, we&#8217;re not technically a denomination but an association of congregations. - PB]</em> This ad at least has some content, even though it is still framed negatively.</p>
<p>But I do not think the ad is quite SO terrible, either.  In New England and other areas the kind of religious diversity and flexibility UU&#8217;s take for granted is shared by many other faith communities, but there are many places where this is not true at all - many places where the kind of approach to prayer the ad promotes would be a revelation.</p>
<p>Although I do not think our primary mode of self-definition should be in negetaive terms, what we do not do and who we are not is still important because it does still distinguish us from most other religious communities - even in liberal places like New England.  Sure, there are many liberal and progressive Episcopalians, Catholics, etc. out there, but they are often in conflict with their own faith communities.  These other faiths are not as comfortable with doubt - whether in prayer or in other contexts and are expressed in their internal disputes about gay bishops, activist laity, and other things - which are not issues for UUs in nearly the same way.</p>
<p>And i don&#8217;t think these other faiths will be much insulted - or even upset by these ads.  Who will be upset most are all the UU humanists appalled at having their religion advertised as &#8220;praying.&#8221;</p>
<p>All that being said, I think the slogans you suggested would be much better - more positive, substantive, and accurate.  It is always more powerful to talk about who we are and what we do, than who and what we are not.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary Ann</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/04/12/when-in-doubt-pray-when-in-prayer-have-an-existential-crisis/#comment-16638</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary Ann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 20:29:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/?p=1529#comment-16638</guid>
		<description>A detail: UMs are not creedal. We do have an assortment of creeds in The UM Hymnal, but we are neither asked nor required ro assent to a creed as either lay or clergy, or to have any or them recited in service, ever. They're used in some churches, not in others. Moreover, when creeds are recited in churches, it is quite usual for people to be unobtrusively silent for some clauses.  [&lt;em&gt;Thanks, Mary Ann. BTW, I totally dig the Methodists. - PB&lt;/em&gt;]

Otherwise, yep. I particularly liked your first slogan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A detail: UMs are not creedal. We do have an assortment of creeds in The UM Hymnal, but we are neither asked nor required ro assent to a creed as either lay or clergy, or to have any or them recited in service, ever. They&#8217;re used in some churches, not in others. Moreover, when creeds are recited in churches, it is quite usual for people to be unobtrusively silent for some clauses.  [<em>Thanks, Mary Ann. BTW, I totally dig the Methodists. - PB</em>]</p>
<p>Otherwise, yep. I particularly liked your first slogan.</p>
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		<title>By: St. Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/04/12/when-in-doubt-pray-when-in-prayer-have-an-existential-crisis/#comment-16627</link>
		<dc:creator>St. Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:16:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/?p=1529#comment-16627</guid>
		<description>When in &lt;i&gt;TIME,&lt;/i&gt; have a typographical crisis.

The "Nurture..." tagline is nice, but I hardly even noticed it until commenter "Wonder and Wondering" pointed it out here. It's typeset in that light green, and it's got the Chrysler-style "wing" lines on it, visually transforming it into a graphic element instead of written content.

And now that I think about that green, I realize that the big text in black makes the big text in green fade out by comparison -- and the two halves of the slogan (oh, it's not the UUA slogan? Well, it is &lt;i&gt;now&lt;/i&gt;) are vexingly mismatched, colorwise. It's a badly-constructed meaning sandwich. I'm getting semantic indigestion.

Also, note that this ad -- intrinsically provocative, regardless of context -- is in an issue of &lt;i&gt;TIME&lt;/i&gt; dedicated to the Pope.

And good heavens, &lt;a href="http://www.uua.org/leaders/leaderslibrary/marketing/" title="National Marketing Campaign page at UUA.org" rel="nofollow"&gt;the UUA says&lt;/a&gt;: &lt;i&gt;The May 12 issue of TIME (available on newsstands May 2) -- the popular "TIME 100" issue -- will carry a UUA ad with the provocative headline, "My God is Better Than Your God"&lt;/i&gt; -- that's going to go over REALLY REALLY well! Yes yes, I'm sure there will be an explanatory paragraph on the page, just like in the current ad, but what will people see at first glance (and read no further)? Same thing as this time: the headline and the UUA logo. Awesome.

I admire your strength, PeaceBang, carrying on your mission while the organization repeatedly shoots itself in the foot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When in <i>TIME,</i> have a typographical crisis.</p>
<p>The &#8220;Nurture&#8230;&#8221; tagline is nice, but I hardly even noticed it until commenter &#8220;Wonder and Wondering&#8221; pointed it out here. It&#8217;s typeset in that light green, and it&#8217;s got the Chrysler-style &#8220;wing&#8221; lines on it, visually transforming it into a graphic element instead of written content.</p>
<p>And now that I think about that green, I realize that the big text in black makes the big text in green fade out by comparison &#8212; and the two halves of the slogan (oh, it&#8217;s not the UUA slogan? Well, it is <i>now</i>) are vexingly mismatched, colorwise. It&#8217;s a badly-constructed meaning sandwich. I&#8217;m getting semantic indigestion.</p>
<p>Also, note that this ad &#8212; intrinsically provocative, regardless of context &#8212; is in an issue of <i>TIME</i> dedicated to the Pope.</p>
<p>And good heavens, <a href="http://www.uua.org/leaders/leaderslibrary/marketing/" title="National Marketing Campaign page at UUA.org" rel="nofollow">the UUA says</a>: <i>The May 12 issue of TIME (available on newsstands May 2) &#8212; the popular &#8220;TIME 100&#8243; issue &#8212; will carry a UUA ad with the provocative headline, &#8220;My God is Better Than Your God&#8221;</i> &#8212; that&#8217;s going to go over REALLY REALLY well! Yes yes, I&#8217;m sure there will be an explanatory paragraph on the page, just like in the current ad, but what will people see at first glance (and read no further)? Same thing as this time: the headline and the UUA logo. Awesome.</p>
<p>I admire your strength, PeaceBang, carrying on your mission while the organization repeatedly shoots itself in the foot.</p>
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		<title>By: Dwight Welch</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/04/12/when-in-doubt-pray-when-in-prayer-have-an-existential-crisis/#comment-16616</link>
		<dc:creator>Dwight Welch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/?p=1529#comment-16616</guid>
		<description>As a member in the Disciples of Christ (and former UU) it may be odd: but I can see how this ad can work. The problem is folks on the whole (certainly on the campus I've worked) see fundamentalism or see no religious option. That's it. There simply is no space in a lot of folks heads to imagine a third option.

To consider UUism or any alternative means to consider the possibility that there is a religion which does not look like religion as they know it. This ad (like the UCC ads) try to create that opening. 

For folks more sophisticated about religion it won't be compelling. But most folks who give up on fundamentalism don't join UUism, Buddhism, and the like, they simply become members of the church alumni association (thank you Spong for that term).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a member in the Disciples of Christ (and former UU) it may be odd: but I can see how this ad can work. The problem is folks on the whole (certainly on the campus I&#8217;ve worked) see fundamentalism or see no religious option. That&#8217;s it. There simply is no space in a lot of folks heads to imagine a third option.</p>
<p>To consider UUism or any alternative means to consider the possibility that there is a religion which does not look like religion as they know it. This ad (like the UCC ads) try to create that opening. </p>
<p>For folks more sophisticated about religion it won&#8217;t be compelling. But most folks who give up on fundamentalism don&#8217;t join UUism, Buddhism, and the like, they simply become members of the church alumni association (thank you Spong for that term).</p>
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		<title>By: Tracie the Red</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/04/12/when-in-doubt-pray-when-in-prayer-have-an-existential-crisis/#comment-16574</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracie the Red</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 00:43:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/?p=1529#comment-16574</guid>
		<description>I like PB's suggestions so much better. Sometimes I feel like I'm not encouraged or supported in being a theist among the UUs, I must admit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like PB&#8217;s suggestions so much better. Sometimes I feel like I&#8217;m not encouraged or supported in being a theist among the UUs, I must admit.</p>
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