PeaceBang

14 Comments »

RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI

1. Wow! I got quoted!

   But seriously, I’m with you right there. I found my church because I needed it. It fulfilled a desire for spirituality that I was very sorely missing at that point in my life. And, happily, it’s really changed my life for the better. You know, I went to a class about Christianity at a local Christian church. And the members there, slightly fundamental in some ways, described that there’s this feeling of peace with Christians once they’ve accepted the life of walking with Christ.

   I have to say that what they described is what I felt when I connected up with my UU church. So, I’m thinking that when a person finds their place spirituality, it really does give him/her a sense of well-being that bleed over positively into his/her life. I’m feeling better than I have in years. And it’s because I believe in *something*, however vague and undefined that *something* is to me. Even more extraordinary, I’ve *let* myself believe in *something* without criticizing myself for being ridiculous. That’s really significant.

   Comment by Mars Girl — April 14, 2008 #

2. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that at all, but I didn’t become a UU to find spirituality. I was already a spiritual person. I came to UUism hoping to find a community of people for whom the search for truth and meaning was also important - and through their work, wisdom, knowledge, and encouragement, be inspired in my own search.

   Comment by h sofia — April 15, 2008 #

3. I don’t think anyone has quoted Marx to me during coffee hour. Well, maybe they have and I didn’t get it, not being well-versed in Marx and all. Now if someone quoted Mel Blanc, it would be as if the heavens opened upon me!

   I read PB just about every day, though rarely comment. But the question you posed made me cringe. The cringe was brought on by the parallel thoughts “oh, yeah, we UUs can act like that” and “I’m almost insulted by this.”

   I like to look at my UU faith as an evolution: And in the beginning, our forebearers wanted to worship one God and proclaim universal salvation for all, and it was good. The next generations fought for the abolition of slavery, women’s suffrage, civil rights, human dignity and peace, and some did in the name of God, and it was good. Then there were those looking to do good without having to believe in God and found a faith where they could, and it was good. Do you see where I’m going with this? We’re not perfect, but we have a rich history in this world, both in the name of God and in the name of good. And in recent history too, for example, with our work for equal marriage in Massachusetts that was both right and religious in my eyes.

   Do some UUs poo-poo those unenlightened folks of other faiths? Sure. Do some find God within our religious movement? Absolutely. It is without any doubt that I pray for those who believe in God and for those who find peace in the river.

   Comment by Janeybird — April 15, 2008 #

4. “those who believe in God and for those who find peace in the river…”

   This reminds me of a much-used analogy in Buddhism about the nature of Ultimate (or Divine) and the proximate (or phenomena) about waves and water. My exposure to various contemplative/mystic elements of religious traditions tend to have a similar panentheistic suggestiveness. That is, while we cannot use talk about water in the same way we talk about waves (it is in this sense transcendent beyond rational conceptualization, i.e. ineffable), without waves there would be no water and without water there would be no waves, and hence the Ultimate is immanent as well. As Thich Nhat Hanh says in the talks published in Going Home, if you want to know the Divine, you have to get deeply in touch with the world around you. If you get rid of the waves, there is no water to experience.

   It makes me wonder - what is the difference between believing in God and finding peace in the river? If you can’t do one, how can you do the other? To clarify, for me believing isn’t only intellectual assent, it also involves trusting, accepting, and being vulnerable. So I suppose someone could “believe in” something they label “God”, but I don’t personally see that as being the same. (In fact, I would agree with Tillich that to “believe in” God in the other sense presumes God is an object alongside other objects rather than the ground of Being.)

   Which comes back to the original question as well about whether it is OK for religion to be beneficial. My two cents (OK, OK, I am probably up to a buck fifty by now) is - it isn’t just OK, it is the point. Becoming whole and hale has the same root as the word “holy”, and religion comes from a root meaning “to bind”. If we are not being connected somehow and in doing so becoming whole, then one could (but probably shouldn’t) argue that ones practice isn’t really religion. Obviously there are concerns about whether one is really growing or simply becoming co-dependent on a fixed image or set of doctrines (the inherent danger of idolatry), but that doesn’t negate the basic transformative quality of religious experience.

   Comment by tinythinker — April 15, 2008 #

5. A while back I was listening to an interview with Kurt Vonnegut on NPR. I think it was around the time of his death. He was talking about the well known “religion is the opiate of the masses,” and said that Marx did not mean that pejoratively. He meant that life is damn painful, and anything that helps us through is a gift.

   In a related matter, it seems to me that if Barak Obama had simply said “we,” rather than “they,” he wouldn’t be in such hot water.

   Comment by Heather — April 15, 2008 #

6. I’m not UU. But I’ve noticed in my own tradition there is a strong backlash against the idea that religion is supposed to be all about smoothing my path through life and then heaven when we die. It’s not about me, it’s about mission and justice and the Kingdom and allowing myself to be broken and poured out for the world.

   And all that is true and right and good.

   BUT. I’ve also learned that at least for me it is nothing short of arrogance to try to skip the “taking care of me” step and go right to mission and justice and the Kingdom. I cannot pour out if my own wells have run dry and it is prideful to think that I can or should.

   Religion is, in part, about taking care of me because I (along with everyone else) am a fragile human being in need of care. Now it cannot cannot cannot stop there — but that has to be part of the equation or I’ll be heading off a cliff in short order.

   The trick, of course, is how to maintain appropriate and necessary care for yourself without getting sucked into narcissism. That’s not easy.

   Comment by Kristen — April 16, 2008 #

7. My question is “what is God’s responsibility to His people?”
   My faith has dwindled to pretty much nothing over the last few years due to an event and subsequent major depression. I tried (and am still trying) prescription drugs, therapy, seminars etc. (”God helps those who help themselves” and all that.) And through it all I BEGGED God for help. But He never answered and never helped me. I wasn’t asking to win the lottery, or to lose 20 pounds. I was asking for some easement of my emotional pain.

   I wish I could have faith. (and I do understand the meaning of the word indicates that I do not require proof.) but I’ve reached the point where I feel that if God has no interest in me, then I will not waste any more time talking to Him. It hurts even more to be ignored by someone who is supposed to love me.

   And I don’t know what to do.

   [Dear Kristen, I’m glad you shared this, and I think you’ve made a valuable contribution by reminding us that perhaps above all, God is an experience, not a set of beliefs. Our times of wandering in the desert of feeling God-forsaken are the most painful experiences in our lives precisely because it is during those times that we realize no matter how much we read, no matter how much we study, and no matter how much we pray, we cannot force the experience of God. I personally think that those who say, “But God teaches us through suffering” should be pinched, and hard. I hope you will pinch anyone who tries to fob off that kind of explanation on you. It may be true in the larger sense and in the long run for your life, sure, but do you need to hear that? No. Do you need to hear assurance that God does love you, that you are precious in God’s sight, that you are a unique gift whose soul is in God’s care eternally? Probably not. Just a lot of words unless the felt experience of HaShem, the Holy Presence, goes along with those words.

   So let me offer you this, sweetie. Just an observation. It occurs to me, looking through my library of spiritual memoirs of deeply admired spiritual figures, that every one of them experienced a walk through the lonesome valley themselves. Looks like my own life is filled also with people (including me) whose life path has been smooth at times and rocky at others, and definitely bereft of the consolation of faith for long stretches at a time. I’m flipping through the Psalms. For every praise to God, there’s a complaint that the Psalmist feels bereft of Him. For every expression of faith, there is a corresponding expression of despair and existential crisis. This is why, my friend, we walk together and hold the torch of hope aloft for our sisters and brothers, each taking a turn leading, following, walking and limping along the path.

   You ask what God’s responsibility is to His people. That sounds like an angry question, and why not? Go ahead and be angry. God can take it. I don’t know the answer to your question, but it’s a good one. For now, just know that I hear you, many of us have been there, and we care. - PB]

   Comment by Kristen #2 — April 16, 2008 #

8. Just signing in to say I am on board with that opiate. Especially since it gets my butt out of the house and into serving others. [WORD. - PB]

   Comment by jinnis — April 16, 2008 #

9. I came to the conclusion a long time ago that the only way that it makes sense to conceive of God is to consider that God is not omnipotent, that God doesn’t do miracles to get us out of binds just because we ask him/her to. There is just too much evil in the world to explain away if we accept that God is omnipotent. God to me is a presence, a comforter, a persuader, an advocate, who speaks to us and listens to us. But if we think that God answers prayer by theistically intervening in the world, or by violating some law of physics, then we will surely ber disappointed. And what about the people who don’t believe in God, or the ones who do but who have no one else to pray for them? Does God only intervene on behalf of people who have religious friends? That hardly seems just.

   Ultimately, I think that God’s power is through persuasion, not coercion. We need to listen to what God is persuading us to do; but asking God to do us favors is not going to get very far.

   Comment by Mystical Seeker — April 17, 2008 #

10. I agree with you, Mystical Seeker. I think, also, that God can only act in the physical world through the rules of the physical world. He cant make people fly or change the molecular structure of water with a blink. He is just as confined by the physical world as we are. And he can’t do a single thing about events that occur as a result of each individual’s free will. He can only do so much, and at times, he too must throw up his metaphorical hands in frustration and say, “I see you suffering and it hurts me greatly, but there’s nothing I can do about it!”

    Which, I suppose, is not the mainstream Christian perseption of God. But that is how I conceive God.

    I ask God for strength in prayers to deal with my emotional ups and downs. Maybe the act of praying itself gives you strength, I dont know, but it always seems to help me…

    Comment by Mars Girl — April 17, 2008 #

11. Mars Girl, I agree that God acts through the rules of the physical world. I don’t see any contradiction between that and praying for strength. There is a difference between asking God to intervene against the laws of nature, and prayerfully listening to God’s call and responding accordingly.

    Comment by Mystical Seeker — April 17, 2008 #

12. Mars and Mystical - I take it you mean this metaphorically? Otherwise, I don’t see how God can be limited by the laws of the physical world and still hear, see, know us all … etc. I’m not trying to disagree with your concept of God, just not sure what you mean by it.

    Comment by h sofia — April 17, 2008 #

13. Sofia,

    I can’t speak for Mars, but I don’t mean metaphorically. I think that God is not all-powerful in the sense that God acts by persuasion rather than coercion, but I’m not sure what that has to do with God encompassing everything and knowing all.

    Comment by Mystical Seeker — April 17, 2008 #

14. Mystical - What mechanism does God use to persuade?

    Comment by h sofia — April 18, 2008 #

Leave a comment