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	<title>Comments on: Barack Denounces His Pastor</title>
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	<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/04/30/barack-denounces-his-pastor/</link>
	<description>The manic mind of the minister -- Auntie Mame Meets Cotton Mather</description>
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		<title>By: rev. ralph yeager roberts</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/04/30/barack-denounces-his-pastor/comment-page-1/#comment-24627</link>
		<dc:creator>rev. ralph yeager roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 05:10:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I remember my initial reaction to some of the clips I heard from rev. Wright and thought &quot;Wow such graphic prophecy it is worthy of the Bible.&quot;  We forget this pastor&#039;s namesake perhaps, the prophet Jerrimiah who saw the prideful abandonment of ritiousness as much of a tell tale sign of their inevitable demise as their arogantly displayed ignorance of forign political affairs.  Jerrimiah of the Bible speaks of women feeding on their own off spring.  His colorful use of the divine imperative seems not a little related to his own sense of being injured, my meaning is that he had more ire when denouncing those who were doing harm to him.  Liberals want justice but forget that often that means there is a right and wrong side or at least a righter and worser to be gross with language.
I have a poetic sense and often employ religious imagery.  I relate to all of this in a situation where after not being paid by an employer then unable to get a responce or support from administrators in a position to step in and with morgatge payments pressing in and me on dissability I called to let this person, also a person of faith, know that what he was doing was wrong and that while I seemed unable to get justice I encouraged him to do what he knows is right and repent of the injury he is doing to me ending by stating that if not according to our shared faith he ows me come glory, a real debt and I prayed that I would not yield to the good will heaven must induce and remember what this cowerdise had meant for me and by extension others.
This person who knows well that I refered to the passage of peater and the keys to the kingdom manipulated words from family and friends to get a restraining order fieled against me.  The effects have been enormous.  The world we live in has a model of civility that we can, if we want, manipulate to scielence and discredit what we are embarased or mad or ofended by and sadly anger is something those who assume abusive positions are anxious to quiet and so those hurt are trained to not even be angry at those who injure them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember my initial reaction to some of the clips I heard from rev. Wright and thought &#8220;Wow such graphic prophecy it is worthy of the Bible.&#8221;  We forget this pastor&#8217;s namesake perhaps, the prophet Jerrimiah who saw the prideful abandonment of ritiousness as much of a tell tale sign of their inevitable demise as their arogantly displayed ignorance of forign political affairs.  Jerrimiah of the Bible speaks of women feeding on their own off spring.  His colorful use of the divine imperative seems not a little related to his own sense of being injured, my meaning is that he had more ire when denouncing those who were doing harm to him.  Liberals want justice but forget that often that means there is a right and wrong side or at least a righter and worser to be gross with language.<br />
I have a poetic sense and often employ religious imagery.  I relate to all of this in a situation where after not being paid by an employer then unable to get a responce or support from administrators in a position to step in and with morgatge payments pressing in and me on dissability I called to let this person, also a person of faith, know that what he was doing was wrong and that while I seemed unable to get justice I encouraged him to do what he knows is right and repent of the injury he is doing to me ending by stating that if not according to our shared faith he ows me come glory, a real debt and I prayed that I would not yield to the good will heaven must induce and remember what this cowerdise had meant for me and by extension others.<br />
This person who knows well that I refered to the passage of peater and the keys to the kingdom manipulated words from family and friends to get a restraining order fieled against me.  The effects have been enormous.  The world we live in has a model of civility that we can, if we want, manipulate to scielence and discredit what we are embarased or mad or ofended by and sadly anger is something those who assume abusive positions are anxious to quiet and so those hurt are trained to not even be angry at those who injure them.</p>
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		<title>By: Morag</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/04/30/barack-denounces-his-pastor/comment-page-1/#comment-17598</link>
		<dc:creator>Morag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 09:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>From Gary McDougall in today&#039;s Washington Post.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/02/AR2008050202794.html?hpid=opinionsbox1</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From Gary McDougall in today&#8217;s Washington Post.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/02/AR2008050202794.html?hpid=opinionsbox1" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/02/AR2008050202794.html?hpid=opinionsbox1</a></p>
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		<title>By: Chalicechick</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/04/30/barack-denounces-his-pastor/comment-page-1/#comment-17516</link>
		<dc:creator>Chalicechick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 18:25:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/?p=1543#comment-17516</guid>
		<description>I would probably agree if Obama weren&#039;t so set on running against Washington and portraying himself as a different kind of politician who is following his convictions rather than following the polls.  

Given how much mileage the R&#039;s got out of guys who had served with Kerry saying that Kerry wasn&#039;t REALLY a war hero, I can understand how Obama is pretty sensitive to the impact Rev. Wright&#039;s (I would say quite inappropriate) speculation could have.  

I do think Wright is correct about a healthy portion of what he says. I admire what he&#039;s done. While I&#039;m not sure that agreeing to speak in front of the Press Club isn&#039;t asking for publicity, I don&#039;t think Wright is all about ego.  But I still can&#039;t imagine why he thought that impugning the sincerety of Obama&#039;s belief and implying that only Wright himself was answering to God was at all reasonable. 

I&#039;m frankly a little disturbed that publically  questioning a parishoner&#039;s sincerity of belief isn&#039;t a violation of ministerial ethics.  [&lt;em&gt;A good point, and I think it most certainly is, but I didn&#039;t read Wright&#039;s remarks that way. I heard him say repeatedly that Obama is a politician, speaking like a politician. It sounded like plain truth, not condemnatory or impugning his faith. I think it&#039;s fascinating how we are all reading this with different shadings... PB&lt;/em&gt;]

CC</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would probably agree if Obama weren&#8217;t so set on running against Washington and portraying himself as a different kind of politician who is following his convictions rather than following the polls.  </p>
<p>Given how much mileage the R&#8217;s got out of guys who had served with Kerry saying that Kerry wasn&#8217;t REALLY a war hero, I can understand how Obama is pretty sensitive to the impact Rev. Wright&#8217;s (I would say quite inappropriate) speculation could have.  </p>
<p>I do think Wright is correct about a healthy portion of what he says. I admire what he&#8217;s done. While I&#8217;m not sure that agreeing to speak in front of the Press Club isn&#8217;t asking for publicity, I don&#8217;t think Wright is all about ego.  But I still can&#8217;t imagine why he thought that impugning the sincerety of Obama&#8217;s belief and implying that only Wright himself was answering to God was at all reasonable. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m frankly a little disturbed that publically  questioning a parishoner&#8217;s sincerity of belief isn&#8217;t a violation of ministerial ethics.  [<em>A good point, and I think it most certainly is, but I didn't read Wright's remarks that way. I heard him say repeatedly that Obama is a politician, speaking like a politician. It sounded like plain truth, not condemnatory or impugning his faith. I think it's fascinating how we are all reading this with different shadings... PB</em>]</p>
<p>CC</p>
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		<title>By: KJR</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/04/30/barack-denounces-his-pastor/comment-page-1/#comment-17511</link>
		<dc:creator>KJR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 16:09:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/?p=1543#comment-17511</guid>
		<description>I have been to Trinity and found the worship there and Wright&#039;s preaching remarkable and memorable.  I thought the initial soundbite attacks on Wright, and through him Obama was the media at its worst --- and the fact that Wright was singled out seems racist to me given the many crazy things other preachers connected with other candidates have said and done.  (And to expect someone to leave his church because of remarks by the pastor --- do we apply this standard to Catholics and their popes or their pedophile protecting hierarchies?)  

Never the less,  Wright made a terrible mistake to go to the National Press Club and say what he said.  I completely understand the temptation involved --- I have been attacked in equally vicious but far, far, less humiliating ways in a much smaller venue and certainly wanted more than anything else to defend myself.  But as a minister, sometimes you end up crucified when you don&#039;t deserve it and you have to take it in order to be faithful to what you are about.  I think Wright&#039;s ego got in the way of his call and has hurt a lot of the things his ministry was about as a result.  Understandable what he did, but not admirable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been to Trinity and found the worship there and Wright&#8217;s preaching remarkable and memorable.  I thought the initial soundbite attacks on Wright, and through him Obama was the media at its worst &#8212; and the fact that Wright was singled out seems racist to me given the many crazy things other preachers connected with other candidates have said and done.  (And to expect someone to leave his church because of remarks by the pastor &#8212; do we apply this standard to Catholics and their popes or their pedophile protecting hierarchies?)  </p>
<p>Never the less,  Wright made a terrible mistake to go to the National Press Club and say what he said.  I completely understand the temptation involved &#8212; I have been attacked in equally vicious but far, far, less humiliating ways in a much smaller venue and certainly wanted more than anything else to defend myself.  But as a minister, sometimes you end up crucified when you don&#8217;t deserve it and you have to take it in order to be faithful to what you are about.  I think Wright&#8217;s ego got in the way of his call and has hurt a lot of the things his ministry was about as a result.  Understandable what he did, but not admirable.</p>
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		<title>By: fausto</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/04/30/barack-denounces-his-pastor/comment-page-1/#comment-17510</link>
		<dc:creator>fausto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 15:40:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/?p=1543#comment-17510</guid>
		<description>Rev. Wright&#039;s message is prophetic in places.  Yes, America is like Imperial Rome.  Yes, if you oppress a people long enough, they are going to be inherently angry.  Yes, as people of faith we are called to resist oppression.  And so on.  

It&#039;s not going to be a message that the sleeping, secular, dominant class may enjoy hearing, but it won&#039;t be anything new to most of the faithful in any of the Abrahamic traditions if it&#039;s said properly, no matter where they may otherwise stand along the political spectrum.

The problem with Wright&#039;s attempt at prophecy is he dind&#039;t say it properly.  He said untruths and hurled gratuitous insults in order to illustrate and emphasize what he perceived as truth, but in so doing, he also undermined the credibility of his truth.  At that point, Obama had no choice but to repudiate Wright in order to save his own reputation.

But there&#039;s something deeper going on, too.  As Jesus first preached, and later demonstrated by his own trial and execution, a prophet is without honor in his own land.  It may be unrealistic of us on the one hand to project onto Obama our own prophetic expectations, and on the other to expect him to be chosen by his own people to rule over Rome.  And that may be part of what Wright, however ineffectively, was trying to say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rev. Wright&#8217;s message is prophetic in places.  Yes, America is like Imperial Rome.  Yes, if you oppress a people long enough, they are going to be inherently angry.  Yes, as people of faith we are called to resist oppression.  And so on.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s not going to be a message that the sleeping, secular, dominant class may enjoy hearing, but it won&#8217;t be anything new to most of the faithful in any of the Abrahamic traditions if it&#8217;s said properly, no matter where they may otherwise stand along the political spectrum.</p>
<p>The problem with Wright&#8217;s attempt at prophecy is he dind&#8217;t say it properly.  He said untruths and hurled gratuitous insults in order to illustrate and emphasize what he perceived as truth, but in so doing, he also undermined the credibility of his truth.  At that point, Obama had no choice but to repudiate Wright in order to save his own reputation.</p>
<p>But there&#8217;s something deeper going on, too.  As Jesus first preached, and later demonstrated by his own trial and execution, a prophet is without honor in his own land.  It may be unrealistic of us on the one hand to project onto Obama our own prophetic expectations, and on the other to expect him to be chosen by his own people to rule over Rome.  And that may be part of what Wright, however ineffectively, was trying to say.</p>
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		<title>By: juniper</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/04/30/barack-denounces-his-pastor/comment-page-1/#comment-17507</link>
		<dc:creator>juniper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 14:01:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/?p=1543#comment-17507</guid>
		<description>Having watched the press club interview, the speech in Detroit and the Moyers interview doesnt make me any kind of expert on Jeremiah Wright, but having seen them, I just cannot understand what the press is talking about.  I found him speak with intelligence, hope, Spirit and love in all those contexts.

RE a previous comment:
&lt;i&gt;It doesn’t seem religiously liberal to me to damn whole nations, &lt;/i&gt;

As Wright explains in the both the Moyers and interview and at the press club, he is quoting from the prophets here, reminding us that CONDEMN and DAMN come from the same root word, and that God, in the Bible, condemns nations that do not care for the poor, the widow, etc.


&lt;i&gt;to approve virulent racists and anti-Semites (who also happen to have profoundly anti-liberal theologies),&lt;/i&gt; 
In the press club, he says &quot;Louis Farrakan is not my enemy.&quot;  Is that the same thing as approval?  No, instead, it is consistent with his message throughout the 3 speeches that it is God&#039;s plan for all religions to work together.    


&lt;i&gt;to spread paranoia and junk science, &lt;/i&gt;
In speaking of the Tuskegee (spelling?) experiments, which are well-documented, Wright says the government could be capable of anything. In the 3 speeches, he repeatedly emphasizes the need for education, for reading more and learning more.

&lt;i&gt;or to sabotage the most viable non-white presidential candidate in history.&lt;/i&gt;
The only sabatoge I see going on in the press is by liberals, who are embarrassed by a person who speaks openly of faith in a secular age, and of race in a time when we&#039;re all supposed to be colorblind and past all that.

[&lt;em&gt;Jun, I am so with you here. He explains that the chickens coming home to roost remark was his quoting an Islamic extremist, and he makes good, plain sense to me in lots of other places where others found his remarks to be inflammatory. As a woman of Jewish heritage, I was totally satisfied with his explanation of his relationship to Farrakhan. I think his appearance at the National Press Club was awesome. I found it not AT ALL a denunciation of Obama. I think Wright did a masterful job at explaining, hey, I&#039;m a pastor, he&#039;s a politician. He&#039;s going to say things in a way he needs to say them because he&#039;s trying to get elected, and I&#039;m going to say things the way I&#039;m going to say them because I&#039;m a minister. I didn&#039;t hear in that any insinuation that only &lt;/em&gt;&lt;em&gt;he&lt;/em&gt; is &quot;answerable to God&quot; -- I think it&#039;s very interesting how we&#039;re all reading or listening to the same material and hearing completely different things. I stand by my initial assessment that this is evidence of the weak state of liberal religion in this country, evidence of the terrible national immaturity around race and racism, and a personal failure of two extraordinarily bright and talented public figures who should have been able to figure something better than this out. - PB]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having watched the press club interview, the speech in Detroit and the Moyers interview doesnt make me any kind of expert on Jeremiah Wright, but having seen them, I just cannot understand what the press is talking about.  I found him speak with intelligence, hope, Spirit and love in all those contexts.</p>
<p>RE a previous comment:<br />
<i>It doesn’t seem religiously liberal to me to damn whole nations, </i></p>
<p>As Wright explains in the both the Moyers and interview and at the press club, he is quoting from the prophets here, reminding us that CONDEMN and DAMN come from the same root word, and that God, in the Bible, condemns nations that do not care for the poor, the widow, etc.</p>
<p><i>to approve virulent racists and anti-Semites (who also happen to have profoundly anti-liberal theologies),</i><br />
In the press club, he says &#8220;Louis Farrakan is not my enemy.&#8221;  Is that the same thing as approval?  No, instead, it is consistent with his message throughout the 3 speeches that it is God&#8217;s plan for all religions to work together.    </p>
<p><i>to spread paranoia and junk science, </i><br />
In speaking of the Tuskegee (spelling?) experiments, which are well-documented, Wright says the government could be capable of anything. In the 3 speeches, he repeatedly emphasizes the need for education, for reading more and learning more.</p>
<p><i>or to sabotage the most viable non-white presidential candidate in history.</i><br />
The only sabatoge I see going on in the press is by liberals, who are embarrassed by a person who speaks openly of faith in a secular age, and of race in a time when we&#8217;re all supposed to be colorblind and past all that.</p>
<p>[<em>Jun, I am so with you here. He explains that the chickens coming home to roost remark was his quoting an Islamic extremist, and he makes good, plain sense to me in lots of other places where others found his remarks to be inflammatory. As a woman of Jewish heritage, I was totally satisfied with his explanation of his relationship to Farrakhan. I think his appearance at the National Press Club was awesome. I found it not AT ALL a denunciation of Obama. I think Wright did a masterful job at explaining, hey, I'm a pastor, he's a politician. He's going to say things in a way he needs to say them because he's trying to get elected, and I'm going to say things the way I'm going to say them because I'm a minister. I didn't hear in that any insinuation that only </em><em>he</em> is "answerable to God" -- I think it's very interesting how we're all reading or listening to the same material and hearing completely different things. I stand by my initial assessment that this is evidence of the weak state of liberal religion in this country, evidence of the terrible national immaturity around race and racism, and a personal failure of two extraordinarily bright and talented public figures who should have been able to figure something better than this out. - PB]</p>
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		<title>By: Mars Girl</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/04/30/barack-denounces-his-pastor/comment-page-1/#comment-17506</link>
		<dc:creator>Mars Girl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 13:21:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/?p=1543#comment-17506</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m so tired of this election.... would someone please make it stop????

The media and their sound bites... It&#039;s driving me insane. I cant believe anything from any of them. I&#039;m sick of all the pandering!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m so tired of this election&#8230;. would someone please make it stop????</p>
<p>The media and their sound bites&#8230; It&#8217;s driving me insane. I cant believe anything from any of them. I&#8217;m sick of all the pandering!!</p>
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		<title>By: Madgebaby</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/04/30/barack-denounces-his-pastor/comment-page-1/#comment-17491</link>
		<dc:creator>Madgebaby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 00:30:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/?p=1543#comment-17491</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see this as so much a failure of the liberal church as an example of what happens to a prophet with a huge ego.  I was entirely sympathetic to Wright until his recent comments.  Obama had no choice but to set some boundaries at that point.  

I&#039;d also argue that the conservative church is much more divided in this race than the liberal church, particularly when compared to the last couple of decades&#039; worth of presdiential politics.  The division this highlights is perhaps more generational than anything else.  

This all highlights a common and dangeroustendency in all congregational life to elevate one&#039;s own opinion to Gospel status, which ultimately is a form of fundamentalism.  Wright unfortunately crossed this line, as do many powerful preachers on all points of the conservative-liberal continum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see this as so much a failure of the liberal church as an example of what happens to a prophet with a huge ego.  I was entirely sympathetic to Wright until his recent comments.  Obama had no choice but to set some boundaries at that point.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;d also argue that the conservative church is much more divided in this race than the liberal church, particularly when compared to the last couple of decades&#8217; worth of presdiential politics.  The division this highlights is perhaps more generational than anything else.  </p>
<p>This all highlights a common and dangeroustendency in all congregational life to elevate one&#8217;s own opinion to Gospel status, which ultimately is a form of fundamentalism.  Wright unfortunately crossed this line, as do many powerful preachers on all points of the conservative-liberal continum.</p>
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		<title>By: Tracie the Red</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/04/30/barack-denounces-his-pastor/comment-page-1/#comment-17490</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracie the Red</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 23:26:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/?p=1543#comment-17490</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m so sorry, just one more comment...

RE: &quot;insisting that Americans look beyond the sensationalism of a few phrases spoken by a very fine minister who is a known, and respected, radical progressive.&quot;

Well, the more I look at this statement, the more I call my own comment above into question.

Maybe it&#039;s NOT the fault of the liberal church.

It&#039;s the fault of the sensation-seeking, shallow American public. 

They do not want to work too hard at anything. 

They do not want to think about anything.

They want quick soundbite answers, they want to be told what to think, they want to be led around by the nose ring.

This is what we&#039;ve come to in this day and age. 

Whither the pioneer spirit, the independence, the fierce individuality of mind and will?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m so sorry, just one more comment&#8230;</p>
<p>RE: &#8220;insisting that Americans look beyond the sensationalism of a few phrases spoken by a very fine minister who is a known, and respected, radical progressive.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, the more I look at this statement, the more I call my own comment above into question.</p>
<p>Maybe it&#8217;s NOT the fault of the liberal church.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s the fault of the sensation-seeking, shallow American public. </p>
<p>They do not want to work too hard at anything. </p>
<p>They do not want to think about anything.</p>
<p>They want quick soundbite answers, they want to be told what to think, they want to be led around by the nose ring.</p>
<p>This is what we&#8217;ve come to in this day and age. </p>
<p>Whither the pioneer spirit, the independence, the fierce individuality of mind and will?</p>
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		<title>By: Tracie the Red</title>
		<link>http://www.peacebang.com/2008/04/30/barack-denounces-his-pastor/comment-page-1/#comment-17489</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracie the Red</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 23:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.peacebang.com/?p=1543#comment-17489</guid>
		<description>Of course, I grew up near Washington DC and one of my relatives was in the State Department during the Reagan/Bush years. So my mind can sometimes incline towards the sneaky and slippery: 

What if Obama and Wright orchestrated this whole rigamarole behind the scenes, and everyone watching this is being manipulated by both of them? 

It doesn&#039;t matter to me, because I&#039;m inclined to vote for either a Roman Catholic who has dropped out of the race (but whose platform I strongly support - Kucinich) OR the only Unitarian Universalist in the race (Gravel). So I don&#039;t care what Barack and Jeremiah do.

But yes, Senator Gravel is a UU, running as a Libertarian. I&#039;m surprised no one seems to be aware of this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, I grew up near Washington DC and one of my relatives was in the State Department during the Reagan/Bush years. So my mind can sometimes incline towards the sneaky and slippery: </p>
<p>What if Obama and Wright orchestrated this whole rigamarole behind the scenes, and everyone watching this is being manipulated by both of them? </p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t matter to me, because I&#8217;m inclined to vote for either a Roman Catholic who has dropped out of the race (but whose platform I strongly support &#8211; Kucinich) OR the only Unitarian Universalist in the race (Gravel). So I don&#8217;t care what Barack and Jeremiah do.</p>
<p>But yes, Senator Gravel is a UU, running as a Libertarian. I&#8217;m surprised no one seems to be aware of this.</p>
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